Notice to make additional stops?

[VisualAcid]

How much time does it take to allow for making additional stops for a cancelled service?

The train from Weymouth to Bristol was cancelled at 12:23 at Castle Cary, but according to FGW they can't get any train to stop at Oldfield Park between 13:00 and 14:00 as there isn't enough notice. This seems a bit unreasonable especially when there's more time to allow for a stop with a cancellation. Or maybe I'm just annoyed.

 

[bb21]

What do you mean by "a path is opened up by a cancellation"?

 

[VisualAcid]

What do you mean by "a path is opened up by a cancellation"?

Probably not a lot, I'm venting a little. But surely this should be easy to do?

My post sounded hostile maybe but I'm actually just curious .

 

[cuccir]

I suspect different lines have different rules but Cross Country regularly add additional stops within 1-2 hours - two from within the last week for example: (https://twitter.com/crosscountryuk/status/620285106670968833]; https://twitter.com/crosscountryuk/status/620284666235502592]). For an entertaining tale of a highly unusual additional stop on the excellent 'Round the North We Go' blog then see (http://www.merseytart.com/2015/03/day-four-special.html). A longish post but well worth the read! Again, though, it seems that it may be possible within 1-2 hours but perhaps not less than that.

 

[VisualAcid]

I suspect different lines have different rules but Cross Country regularly add additional stops within 1-2 hours - two from within the last week for example: (https://twitter.com/crosscountryuk/status/620285106670968833]; https://twitter.com/crosscountryuk/status/620284666235502592]). For an entertaining tale of a highly unusual additional stop on the excellent 'Round the North We Go' blog then see (http://www.merseytart.com/2015/03/day-four-special.html). A longish post but well worth the read! Again, though, it seems that it may be possible within 1-2 hours but perhaps not less than that.

Fair enough, I seem to remember watching a documentary with East Coast and they seemed to be handing it out orders to driver just before departure! Or maybe the editing deceived me.

 

[sarahj]

Within around 10-15 mins down here in southern land. It also depends on a few things. Sometimes we 'the conductor' are given auth by the phone, but some drivers demand and it is handy, to have a physical stop order*, which can only come from a manned station. Sometime you get a bit of paper, sometimes I've been given a computer print out.


* just in case you get a 'please explain' later. You never know.

 

[wensley]

Fair enough, I seem to remember watching a documentary with East Coast and they seemed to be handing it out orders to driver just before departure! Or maybe the editing deceived me.

There is no real time limit. Control will make the call if a Special Stop Order is neccessary as a result of a cancellation or other operational reason.

Drivers may recieve the SSO at their origin (eg. Kings X) or at their last booked call before the SSO is required.

VTEC services at KX were being issued written SSOs by dispatchers at Kings X to replace calls of cancelled services. During disruption one GC service was given an SSO for Doncaster by the station staff at York.

A written stop order will be given to both Driver and Guard.

During disruption it is protocol (for VTEC) DTLs to carry their SSO book with them, and as SSOs are required they can be radioed down and the paperwork completed and handed to traincrew immediately prior to boarding/dispatch.

 

[Deepgreen]

What do you mean by "a path is opened up by a cancellation"?

You seem to be quoting something that has not been said.

 

[30907]

You seem to be quoting something that has not been said.

Original post has been edited. Maybe that was the edit?

 

[dk1]

I've had Control ring the guard who's asked me to do a SSO within a few minutes. No big deal as far as I'm concerned.

 

[yorkie]

You seem to be quoting something that has not been said.

The original post has the annotation "Last edited by VisualAcid; Today at 13:20" this is because it originally stated "This seems a bit unreasonable especially when a path is opened up by a cancellation"

However that makes no sense, as how can a later train occupy a path vacated by an earlier train? Without time travel and/or teleportation I don't quite see how!

 

[tsr]

My record for arranging a SSO from the "front line" has to be just under 5mins - from realising that a train had been cancelled, through to getting someone to obtain authorisation from Control, then passing the message to platform staff, and then getting the "paperwork" to each end of the train for the driver and conductor... not including the actual stop itself, but everything beforehand. Though, as above, obviously it's been done quicker.

 

[A-driver]

SSOs can also be, and often are, given by the signaller via the radio. No paper needed as its all recorded if any proof is needed. I've had it a few times when the signaller has contacted me and asked me to stop at a particular station or stations for whatever reason.

I will always insist on a written order (or recorded phone/radio call to control/signaller) if told to miss stations out but during severe disruption I'm happy to obey verbal additional stop orders without paper if not staff are available to issue the ticket. When trains are running 20mins late and the entire service is screwed no one is going to challenge why I stopped additionally at Stevenage on a Cambridge cruiser etc!

 

[blotred]

On a related note, I observe that a train I sometimes take (2R13 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W84990/2015/07/16/advanced) operated by Southern isn't timetabled to stop at Wandsworth Common but does stop there sometimes without any manual announcement.
Curiously the on-board PID does say the train stops there, and more often than not the driver clarifies at Balham that the train won't stop at Wandsworth Common.

Is this due to an SSO, or just some weird operational issue?

 

[Bungle965]

On a related note, I observe that a train I sometimes take (2R13 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W84990/2015/07/16/advanced) operated by Southern isn't timetabled to stop at Wandsworth Common but does stop there sometimes without any manual announcement.
Curiously the on-board PID does say the train stops there, and more often than not the driver clarifies at Balham that the train won't stop at Wandsworth Common.

Is this due to an SSO, or just some weird operational issue?

That could just be because of the avaliable paths. i.e if it stops there it could hold up trains.

 

[tsr]

That could just be because of the avaliable paths. i.e if it stops there it could hold up trains.

The service is either timetabled to stop there or it isn't. You can't randomly pick and choose on a day to day basis based on pathing, and in any case that certainly would not just be done on the driver's initiative. It would only stop there if there is either information on the driver's diagram (which may cover a service alteration for the day), a special stop order to cover a cancelled service, the signaller says so (as above), or some other deliberate instruction. Otherwise, if it isn't in the timetable, it may stop at a red signal but the doors shouldn't be opened.

Bear in mind that many trains will not be travelling at significant speed on the Slow lines at that time of the morning anyway - there's not a whole lot of flexibility between Balham and Falcon Junction to make up time if something is so much as fractionally late. So it is a bit nonsensical to further complicate matters by randomly choosing whether or not to stop. It is evident that, at that particular time, it has been deemed neither necessary nor efficient to usually stop that train at Wandsworth Common. So it shouldn't, except as above.

If the train is advertised incorrectly, this is most likely due to the driver having been supplied with an incorrect PIS code (the code entered into the passenger information system which tells it the route and calling pattern). Unfortunately the ability for the driver to change this will depend very much on the stock, the time available when stationary to fiddle around changing the system, and so on. A manual announcement is probably going to suffice on most occasions. It's not actually hard to get back to Wandsworth Common if you do miss the stop, anyway. And if the train is ordered to stop, it doesn't need any alterations to the PIS anyway, so everyone's a winner then.