Notice period concerns

[dglondon]

I was just wondering what the usual period of time is between being offered a definite job offer (ie. a legally binding signed contract) and the actual start date of the training course ?.

I only ask as in several posts I have read (as well as other articles/blogs) it seems to be common for this period to be very short (eg. from a couple of days up to a couple of weeks). For people in employment where the usual notice period that an employee is required to give their employer is 4 weeks, this could be a problem.

Of course you would have to try to negotiate this with your current employers and hope they are ok with you giving them next to no notice period. However, if they choose to, they would be well within their legal rights to sue you for any expenses incurred (eg. having to recruit a temp through an agency to cover for you) when you leave them. This financial threat is the last thing that you need when embarking on a new and demanding training course, especially if you are taking a large salary drop with the training salary, and so money is tight.

I was just wondering how other people have managed in this same situation, and how understanding their current employers have been with them leaving so quickly?. Has anyone had any problems with their company trying to get money back from them as compensation ?.

And finally, is it really as common as it seems for TOC's to give such short notice between offering a 'definite' job and the start date ?

 

[RobBWFC78]

Well, I'm currently self employed so there was no trouble for me. I would have liked more notice (was offered the job on the 15th and I start on the 25th) but I just assumed that it was because someone had let them down and I was next up.

They ask how much notice is required on your application but I'm not sure if they are that driven by it.

 

[Clip]

When I got the job im in now they told me a start date, I said no because of my notice period and they said ok, when can you start. Happened with every job ive gone for on the railway really.

I'd be surprised if any other business didnt carry out the same practice to be honest.

 

[Beveridges]

Someone on the other forums got offered a Maintenance Depot Drivers position at Neville Hill with a start date in 3 days! He couldn't give that short notice, so the TOC put him "on hold" and offered the job to someone else who could, no more vacancies came up so after a while he got told to reapply and start again!

Must have been gutted. The said person had passed all the psychometrics, interviews, medical as well, and had been trying for what seems like forever to get on the footplate.

 

[Kilted_Scot]

I got offered a start within a week but was required to give 3 weeks notice, just wrote a letter to my employer telling then that I could only work 1 weeks notice, no problems. :thumbup:

Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using Tapatalk 2

 

[LCC106]

Although you sign up to an agreed notice period in your written statement of terms and conditions, it is highly unlikely that a company would sue you for costs to cover a temporary replacement. That said, I'd recommend talking to your employer if you can about your ambitions and explaining that you're concerned about being able to work the prescribed notice period, as well as talking to the TOC's HR team. Forewarned and all that...

 

[whhistle]

The worst that would happen is you would forgo any pay owed I would imagine.

 

[cdonnigan]

from previous employments ive been in the norm has been 1 year = 1 week up to a maximum of 12 weeks but it can be at the discretion of your Manager/Area Manager as to what they will accept as notice.

 

[NI 271]

from previous employments ive been in the norm has been 1 year = 1 week up to a maximum of 12 weeks but it can be at the discretion of your Manager/Area Manager as to what they will accept as notice.

Seems a bit unreasonable, unless there's a specific need for that period (ie training of a replacement, for example), would that not be for the company to dismiss you, as opposed to you leaving the company voluntarily? Certainly is where I work, it was also the formula used to work out redundancy payments the last time that happened at manager level. A month for me, and only a week required for our staff.

One thing's for sure; if I'm ever in the position where I've got to choose between starting on the date given by a TOC and breaking my notice period where I currently work, there's no decision to be made, I'm offski.

 

[Beveridges]

Could you not end up in court for breaking a notice period?

some people have 6 month notice periods! that makes it an unreasonable contract in my opinion

 

[NI 271]

Possibly. I'm only speaking about my own personal circumstances, not recommending a course of action for anyone else. The threat of court action wouldn't put me off, although I would hope/expect that after almost half my life with the company that my loyalty (yes, I appreciate the irony there, if I was trying to engineer a move away) would be taken into account and any application to leave would be looked upon favourably.

But if push came to shove, I'd still walk. No question about that.

 

[Withnailandi]

I have applied for conductor since 2009, not doing it just to get driving, if that comes at a later date then fine. I passed my interview, assessment and today i have just passed my medical. I start monday!!! Im supposed to give a months notice but am i going to ? NO WAY, i have worked where i am for 16 years, great memories and i did have doubts but the constant rejection and now finally in. It's a job for life. Just explain your circumstances.

 

[sw1ller]

I know this sounds very underhand but...... You could just come down with a serious bout of flu should your employer not let you finish early! Ask about it now and when you finally do it they might have forgotten you were leaving and not get suspicious.

Also, make sure you save as much holiday as you can, if you can save 2 weeks holiday and your notice period is 3 weeks, you will only have to work 1 week ect.....

 

[W230]

I was just wondering what the usual period of time is between being offered a definite job offer (ie. a legally binding signed contract) and the actual start date of the training course ?

One job offer was in March starting in August. I took it. The other was in July for starting in August (5 weeks notice I think).

I only ask as in several posts I have read (as well as other articles/blogs) it seems to be common for this period to be very short (eg. from a couple of days up to a couple of weeks). For people in employment where the usual notice period that an employee is required to give their employer is 4 weeks, this could be a problem.

It might be common but it wouldn;t put me off applying for the job - cross that bridge when you come to it! In majority of jobs the worst outcome would probably be missing out on some pay, though I doubt that would happen. Like I say, certainly wouldn't be worrying about that until I had a job offer in hand and was given a start date that was going to cause problems!

 

[michael769]

Could you not end up in court for breaking a notice period?

You could but there is no guarantee they would win. Even if they did any award would be limited to actual provable losses. In practice there is little point to trying, and your lawyer would probably find something to counter sue them on just to make it even more of a pain for them.

some people have 6 month notice periods! that makes it an unreasonable contract in my opinion

Indeed, with the exception of people in upper management/board level positions I think you would struggle to enforce more than 1 month.

Back the real world there is considerable flexibility available. I have mostly been on 1 month notice periods - but have never actually worked them out. I have always been able to negotiate a shorter period. It is not really in their interests to have to pay someone to sit about and do as little work as they can (though in practice most people are professional enough to keep working hard) for a month or more.

Likewise while most new employers will be keen for you to start sooner and will seek to encourage that they are usually open to pushing a start date back to accommodate your notice. Recruitment is expensive and time consuming and the costs of putting a start date back are lower than trying to find someone else - especially when they will have decided that you are the best person.

You should not be afraid to ask and negotiate on start/end dates - it is perfectly acceptable and most employers will try to accommodate you if they can.

 

[LCC106]

Statutory notice from the employer to the employee is 1 week per complete year worked up to a maximum of 12 weeks (12 years plus). In my experience, hourly paid roles usually require the employee to give a minimum of 1 week notice and salaried a minimum of 4... although this does vary. As stated above, at middle to senior management level plus it could be 3, 6 or even 12 months. (Usually expressly detailed in the contract).

Very unlikely that an employer would sue if you fall in to the first 2 categories due to the time, expense involved etc. but holiday would only accrue to your last day of work and an employer may state in future references that you failed to work your notice period. Would still urge you to discuss with your manager if you can...

 

[plastictaffy]

See you there, withnailandi, assuming you mean you start with LM??
In answer to the original question posted, I was offered on November 6th, with a start date of November 26th. I COULD have done it, but I wanted to leave my current job on good terms. I told LM, and they were more than happy to put me on another induction to start on Monday. (25th February) I originally gave my Guv'nor notice of leaving before the christmas break - 7 weeks in total. To be fair to my boss, he knows what this job means to me, and as many times as he's asked me to stay - including waving a not insubstantial payrise under my snout, he would have let me go with a few days notice.
In short, tell everybody the same story and you won't go far wrong. If you're straight with the TOC, they will be pretty understanding, and if they're not, do you really want to work for them??

 

[TDK]

I know this sounds very underhand but...... You could just come down with a serious bout of flu should your employer not let you finish early! Ask about it now and when you finally do it they might have forgotten you were leaving and not get suspicious.

Also, make sure you save as much holiday as you can, if you can save 2 weeks holiday and your notice period is 3 weeks, you will only have to work 1 week ect.....

With that attitude I wouldn't employ you! I used to ask potential candidates about their notice period at interview and if they said they would leave and not fulfill their notice they wouldn't get the job! You cannot employ someone who does not have loaylty or would go sick when not ill!

 

[Beveridges]

Even though that may be true in some cases, I've also known a case where someone did NOT get a Maintenance Depot Driving job (see my post earlier) because he was unwilling to break his notice period to join Northern at the required start date!

So instead they gave the job to someone who could

 

[sw1ller]

This is my point TDK, I don't have this attitude, I was just pointing out the options. Stop making it personal. Every job I've had I've worked my notice and I even told my current boss I was unwilling to start on the date they wanted me as I would leave my previous employer very short staffed.

The initial worry was getting the job. I stated it was very underhand and I thought this would imply I don't agree with it. Sorry to get upset with your remark but I found it quite offensive.

 

[tylerdurden86]

This is my point TDK, I don't have this attitude, I was just pointing out the options. Stop making it personal. Every job I've had I've worked my notice and I even told my current boss I was unwilling to start on the date they wanted me as I would leave my previous employer very short staffed.

The initial worry was getting the job. I stated it was very underhand and I thought this would imply I don't agree with it. Sorry to get upset with your remark but I found it quite offensive.

I fail to see how it was a personal attack. Its the best advice offered thus far. Remember most TOCs who employ trainees know they are being used as a stepping stone for other TOCs and they need to see loyalty in some way. They don't know any potential recruit personally and can only base an opinion on such things as an interview and references from previous employers. If they see you had no qualms about ditching your last job and ignoring a contract previously signed then all they know of you is that you find this very easy to do.

 

[TDK]

This is my point TDK, I don't have this attitude, I was just pointing out the options. Stop making it personal. Every job I've had I've worked my notice and I even told my current boss I was unwilling to start on the date they wanted me as I would leave my previous employer very short staffed.

The initial worry was getting the job. I stated it was very underhand and I thought this would imply I don't agree with it. Sorry to get upset with your remark but I found it quite offensive.

Not offensive but just an observation buddy. If you found it offensive I apologise however looking at this logically you post was insinuating something that would cause someone to fail an interview!