Notice of Intended Prosecution - Questions

[UpsettSpaghett]

Hello,

so I received this letter today and I'm a bit confused. I travel to London quite a bit. I was rushing to catch a train, checked my train app and saw I had a ticket that looked unused (I sometimes buy ahead so I thought that's what I did plus the ticket goes grey and can't be used when scanned usually). At the barrier, I got the message "seek assistance" as that sometimes happens. The train staff was busy talking to some people and more people were queuing so I thought fu*k it and bought one stop ticket to get through the barrier immediately cause my train was leaving in like a minute. When I was asked to show the ticket but it didn't want to scan. The ticket collector agreed with me that the ticket looked unused. But said he would just take my details and that I have nothing to worry about. I guess I already used the ticket before? This will sound like an excuse but I do have adhd and am very forgetful and scatterbrained.

Now I got this letter and wanted to ask is it much better to hire a solicitor or just try my best and write the response on my own? Is it even worth it to try and explain? I don't have much money so not sure what is the best possible way.


I know I messed up and I'm really stressed about this so any advice is appreciated. Thank you

Edit: They also sent the letter to the wrong address at first so I received the letter with only 4 days left to respond.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum!

It would really help us if you could show us the letter you have received (but don't forget to hide your personal details so that the whole internet doesn't find out your details). That way we will know which train company you are dealing with (some of them do things differently from others) and quite what stage the process has got to.

 

[UpsettSpaghett]

Welcome to the forum!

It would really help us if you could show us the letter you have received (but don't forget to hide your personal details so that the whole internet doesn't find out your details). That way we will know which train company you are dealing with (some of them do things differently from others) and quite what stage the process has got to.

Its Chiltern Railways.

 

[AlterEgo]

Did you buy your ticket from Wembley Stadium?

 

[UpsettSpaghett]

Did you buy your ticket from Wembley Stadium?

The one I bought to get quickly through the station was to Geralds Cross. The one I had and thought was unused was an open return Bicester-Marelybone

 

[Gloster]

So your journey was Bicester-Marylebone, but you bought a Bicester-Gerrards Cross ticket to get through the barriers at Bicester. Or were you returning from Marylebone to Bicester and bought a Marylebone-Gerrards Cross ticket to get through the barriers at Marylebone?

And was the ticket that turned out to have been used the Outward or Return part of a Bicester-Marylebone ticker? Or what was it?

 

[UpsettSpaghett]

So your journey was Bicester-Marylebone, but you bought a Bicester-Gerrards Cross ticket to get through the barriers at Bicester. Or were you returning from Marylebone to Bicester and bought a Marylebone-Gerrards Cross ticket to get through the barriers at Marylebone?

And was the ticket that turned out to have been used the Outward or Return part of a Bicester-Marylebone ticker? Or what was it?

I bought Marylebone- Gerrards Cross last minute.
The ticket I bought about a week ago was open return Bicester-Marylebone. I'm still not 100% If I used the ticket or not. It just looked unused in the app. Just couldn't be scanned on the train.

 

[island]

I'm rather confused. Let me recite what I think are the facts.

• The letter says you are being investigated for a trip from Bicester to Marylebone
• You say you had a single ticket from London Terminals to Gerrards Cross bought before passing through the barriers
• You also had the return half of a ticket from Bicester Nth/Vil to London Terminals which you weren't sure whether you'd used or not (and this was rejected by the barrier at Marylebone)
• You were spoken to by a ticket inspector on board a train and your details were taken.

It sounds like you were taking a train towards Bicester when you were stopped. Is that right?

Is the date specified on the letter the date that you were stopped?

 

[UpsettSpaghett]

I'm rather confused. Let me recite what I think are the facts.

• The letter says you are being investigated for a trip from Bicester to Marylebone
• You say you had a single ticket from London Terminals to Gerrards Cross bought before passing through the barriers
• You also had the return half of a ticket from Bicester Nth/Vil to London Terminals which you weren't sure whether you'd used or not (and this was rejected by the barrier at Marylebone)
• You were spoken to by a ticket inspector on board a train and your details were taken.

It sounds like you were taking a train towards Bicester when you were stopped. Is that right?

Is the date specified on the letter the date that you were stopped?

Yes, this is correct. And I think it's the same date as I was not taken details ever before/after.

 

[JBuchananGB]

The letter says "between Bicester and Marylebone". It does not say "from Bicester to Marylebone". I think we can assume it relates to the OP's trip from Marylebone to Bicester.

 

[UpsettSpaghett]

The letter says "between Bicester and Marylebone". It does not say "from Bicester to Marylebone". I think we can assume it relates to the OP's trip from Marylebone to Bicester.

Yes it was a trip from Marylebone to Bicester.

 

[John R]

So to summarise, you were caught with a "short fare" ticket between Marylebone and Bicester, having bought a ticket only as far as Gerrard's Cross. I think as far as Chiltern, that's all they will be interested in.

You should be able to resolve this with an out of court settlement offer, provided you respond apologising for not having the correct ticket, and asking very nicely if Chiltern will consider an out of court settlement to resolve the situation. My recommendation would be not to use AI at all in responding, as it produces terribly cringey overblown letters, which looks as though you've taken the easy option in responding, so probably less genuine than written in your own words.

One other point though - if Chiltern looks at your rail ticketing account (often Trainline), will it find other examples of "short fares" from Marylebone in recent months? If so, then it is very likely to consider that this isn't a first offence, and will take that into account in making a settlement offer.

 

[UpsettSpaghett]

So to summarise, you were caught with a "short fare" ticket between Marylebone and Bicester, having bought a ticket only as far as Gerrard's Cross. I think as far as Chiltern, that's all they will be interested in.

You should be able to resolve this with an out of court settlement offer, provided you respond apologising for not having the correct ticket, and asking very nicely if Chiltern will consider an out of court settlement to resolve the situation. My recommendation would be not to use AI at all in responding, as it produces terribly cringey overblown letters, which looks as though you've taken the easy option in responding, so probably less genuine than written in your own words.

One other point though - if Chiltern looks at your rail ticketing account (often Trainline), will it find other examples of "short fares" from Marylebone in recent months? If so, then it is very likely to consider that this isn't a first offence, and will take that into account in making a settlement offer.

I haven't shown the "short fare" ticket. I shown the Marylebone- Bicester ticket I thought was unused. Otherwise I would just paid the fine. There won't be any other "short fares" ticket, I used to do that sometimes but that was years ago.

 

[Haywain]

I haven't shown the "short fare" ticket. I shown the Marylebone- Bicester ticket I thought was unused. Otherwise I would just paid the fine. There won't be any other "short fares" ticket, I used to do that sometimes but that was years ago.

So, you showed a ticket that had been previously used? And thus failed to show any sort of valid ticket. If they look at your purchase history are they going to find a discrepancy between the number of singles and returns that may suggest you have a habit of using return portions more than once?

 

[MotCO]

I bought Marylebone- Gerrards Cross last minute.
The ticket I bought about a week ago was open return Bicester-Marylebone. I'm still not 100% If I used the ticket or not. It just looked unused in the app. Just couldn't be scanned on the train.

Is there any way of checking whether the ticket had been used before. Is it possible, you had used the return before the outward part of the ticket, hence why it had not been fully greyed out?

 

[SuspectUsual]

I used to do that sometimes but that was years ago

How many years?

 

[UpsettSpaghett]

Is there any way of checking whether the ticket had been used before. Is it possible, you had used the return before the outward part of the ticket, hence why it had not been fully greyed out?

I'm not sure how? I can ask in the email if it would be possible to check. Unsure about the latter, it was a Bicester - Marylebone open return.

 

[pwharley]

Hello,

so I received this letter today and I'm a bit confused. I travel to London quite a bit. I was rushing to catch a train, checked my train app and saw I had a ticket that looked unused (I sometimes buy ahead so I thought that's what I did plus the ticket goes grey and can't be used when scanned usually). At the barrier, I got the message "seek assistance" as that sometimes happens.

Did the ticket have a railcard discount applied? Sometimes, gates are set to reject such tickets with a "Seek assistance" message, so that staff can check a valid railcard is held. So it could be the return part was unused and the rejection was for the reason I have stated.

However, this won't explain why the ticket wouldn't scan in the train. If it had been previously used, the Ticket Inspector should have been alerted so that he/she could ask relevant questions e.g. "Have you made a break of journey?"

 

[Cuthbert]

Shame you cannot get the TTK app we use for work. That would definitely tell you.

Doesn't the train app tell you if it has been used in options or a history of use with the app.

 

[island]

Shame you cannot get the TTK app we use for work. That would definitely tell you.

Doesn't the train app tell you if it has been used in options or a history of use with the app.

I am not aware of any customer app that sells e-tickets and "knows" when they have been used.

 

[John R]

I haven't shown the "short fare" ticket. I shown the Marylebone- Bicester ticket I thought was unused. Otherwise I would just paid the fine. There won't be any other "short fares" ticket, I used to do that sometimes but that was years ago.

Though when they look at your account, they will find the "short fare" ticket, and the fact that it was scanned at Marylebone. And they will find it "interesting" that you didn't show that ticket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==

Shame you cannot get the TTK app we use for work. That would definitely tell you.

Doesn't the train app tell you if it has been used in options or a history of use with the app.

If the OP was willing to provide an image of the Aztec code, (and acknowledging that this would compromise anonymity in respect of the rail company, though not the general public), could you tell if it has been used, and if so when?

 

[Cuthbert]

I am not aware of any customer app that sells e-tickets and "knows" when they have been used.

Yeah thinking now it would be a nightmare to set that up.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==

Though when they look at your account, they will find the "short fare" ticket, and the fact that it was scanned at Marylebone. And they will find it "interesting" that you didn't show that ticket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==


If the OP was willing to provide an image of the Aztec code, (and acknowledging that this would compromise anonymity in respect of the rail company, though not the general public), could you tell if it has been used, and if so when?

He could just PM me it if he is worried.
The other thing is to go to a station and politely ask maybe. Better another ToC.

 

[UpsettSpaghett]

Shame you cannot get the TTK app we use for work. That would definitely tell you.

Doesn't the train app tell you if it has been used in options or a history of use with the app.

It doesn't say. It went always grey before when I used a ticket that's why I was sure I had a valid ticket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==

Yeah thinking now it would be a nightmare to set that up.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==


He could just PM me it if he is worried.
The other thing is to go to a station and politely ask maybe. Better another ToC.

Thank you! I don't have the barcode anymore but I do have the booking reference. Will that do?

 

[Cuthbert]

It doesn't say. It went always grey before when I used a ticket that's why I was sure I had a valid ticket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==


Thank you! I don't have the barcode anymore but I do have the booking reference. Will that do?

Unfortunately not, the app needs the barcode.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==

At least you now know if the barrier asks "Seek Assistant" and you are not sure if the ticket has been used. Go seek that advice. As far as the company is concerned you are short faring.

 

[MotCO]

It doesn't say. It went always grey before when I used a ticket that's why I was sure I had a valid ticket.

Does it make a difference if you tried to use the return part before the outward journey? For example, if neither outward nor return had previously been used, the ticket presumably would not be greyed out. But would the ticket let you use the return half before the outwood - would that flag as invalid at the barrier?

 

[John R]

Does it make a difference if you tried to use the return part before the outward journey? For example, if neither outward nor return had previously been used, the ticket presumably would not be greyed out. But would the ticket let you use the return half before the outwood - would that flag as invalid at the barrier?

Surely that would cause problems if for legitimate reasons the outward ticket had not been scanned?

 

[UpsettSpaghett]

Unfortunately not, the app needs the barcode

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==

At least you now know if the barrier asks "Seek Assistant" and you are not sure if the ticket has been used. Go seek that advice. As far as the company is concerned you are short faring.

I found the email with the purchase. When I added it to my wallet, I could see the barcode so will send it to you. Thank you so much!

 

[Cuthbert]

I found the email with the purchase. When I added it to my wallet, I could see the barcode so will send it to you. Thank you so much!

I have replied with the details.

 

[UpsettSpaghett]

So the ticket was used. I guess I can only send an email with an apology and hope for the best...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==

Okay so I went through my train app and in the past I've bought just one stop to get through the barrier 35 times. Totally my fault. How f***ed am I? Should I think of a solicitor?

 

[Hadders]

The decision about whether to use a solicitor is one that only you can make. Chiltern will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement if you engage with them.

A solicitor cannot alter what happened. What they can possibly do is present your mitigation in a better way than you might be able to do yourself. A solicitor isn't cheap and you will have to pay their fee in addition to an out of court settlement to Chiltern. A solicitor can sometimes get a faster outcome than doing it yourself.

Alternatively, you can deal with the matter yourself, forum members will be happy to proof read your reply to Chiltern. If Chiltern's response to your reply is that they want to prosecute then that would be the time when I'd look to engage a solicitor.

If you do decide to write your own reply then I'd recommend a short, concise reply mentioning the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Chiltern will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate (with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase), along with an admin fee, typically around £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered, they won't accept payment in installments.