Not sold a ticket by guard's discretion

[Lockwood]

In the past, on a fair few occasions and on a couple of TOCs, I have got on to a late train after work to return home whilst still in ambulance uniform

I have the either searched for the guard, or boarded at their door, and asked to buy a single back home. This is sometimes met with a "Nah, never mind. Just sit down."

Now, this is usually on a very late train after the gateline is set to open, or the ticket hall is locked up and the side gate is opened, so I have never hit revenue staff.

I'm guessing that the guard would know if there was a late night revenue operation in action?
I'm also guessing that "I don't have a ticket because the guard decided not to sell me one" is not going to be accepted by revenue staff?
Arguing with a guard to sell me a ticket would be bizarre, and wouldn't him instructing me to travel without selling me a ticket be authorisation to travel from a uniformed railway staff person?


(I've never run into any trouble in this situation, but all the talk here about "The guy on the platform" made me wonder)

 

[yorkie]

Assuming you have boarded at an unstaffed station, revenue staff at the destination would do nothing more than sell you the ticket.

There is no requirement to go searching for a Guard, and certainly no requirement to argue with a Guard. Their ticket machine may be faulty, may have run out of battery power or ticket stock etc.

The only time you could be caught in a trap is those times when Northern put RPIs beside exits at stations with ticket offices, and if you are deemed to be avoiding the ticket office, they can pounce.

For example at Glossop, where they moved the ticket office and inspectors caught people out by possible entrapment - there's no effective Regulator or competent ombudsman with any powers to stop them.

There would be no such worries at Lockwood, nor at many - if any - stations late at night.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I'm guessing that the guard would know if there was a late night revenue operation in action?....

They would know if revenue were on the train, but might not be aware of revenue staff on stations (they might have just started for example).

....I'm also guessing that "I don't have a ticket because the guard decided not to sell me one" is not going to be accepted by revenue staff?....

You can travel on a train without a ticket if given permission by an authorised person (the guard would qualify). Revenue staff on the train could easily verify this, revenue at the station might take your being in ambulance uniform into the equation and see that it is common sense that the guard let you travel, they might not. A prosecution would be hard to persue though I think (IANAL).

....Arguing with a guard to sell me a ticket would be bizarre, and wouldn't him instructing me to travel without selling me a ticket be authorisation to travel from a uniformed railway staff person?....

It might be bizarre, but if you feel better for it then just say so.

As noted above, the guard would be an authorised person in regards to the relevant Railway Byelaws.

....(I've never run into any trouble in this situation, but all the talk here about "The guy on the platform" made me wonder)

You could ask for something to aid you exit from a station but I'm not sure how the guard would respond to that request.

 

[Deerfold]

In the past, on a fair few occasions and on a couple of TOCs, I have got on to a late train after work to return home whilst still in ambulance uniform

I have the either searched for the guard, or boarded at their door, and asked to buy a single back home. This is sometimes met with a "Nah, never mind. Just sit down."

Now, this is usually on a very late train after the gateline is set to open, or the ticket hall is locked up and the side gate is opened, so I have never hit revenue staff.

I'm guessing that the guard would know if there was a late night revenue operation in action?
I'm also guessing that "I don't have a ticket because the guard decided not to sell me one" is not going to be accepted by revenue staff?
Arguing with a guard to sell me a ticket would be bizarre, and wouldn't him instructing me to travel without selling me a ticket be authorisation to travel from a uniformed railway staff person?


(I've never run into any trouble in this situation, but all the talk here about "The guy on the platform" made me wonder)

I have occasionally been told by a guard that I don't need to buy a ticket - this has generally been when I already hold a long distance ticket and have approached the guard (or waited when I've expected to have plenty of time) and asked to purchase an additional ticket for a relatively short extension to the journey.

I'm not sure if this is down to sympathy for me, the low commission they would get compared to most tickets they might sell on the train (my extension ticket is worth 2-6% of the typical tickets I see being sold on these train) or the fact I work in a related industry.

 

[Lockwood]

I had a great one a while back, where I was running a little late.
A train got in as I got to the ticket office, so I asked the gateline staff if I could buy a ticket from the guard on board.
They agreed, and let me through.
I approached the guard, who was sat with two revenue protection staff and asked for a ticket, to which a revenue guy told me that I was on board a train in a penalty fare zone without a ticket, and as such was liable to pay. He did not like that "the guy on the platform" let me through, and that he should not have done so, and I was still liable for a penalty fare, etc.
The guard looked at him and told him to shut up, and issued me the requested ticket.

 

[tsr]

I've pro-actively offered to buy excesses when necessary, only to be told not to worry about it, but I've never personally experienced a complete refusal to sell a ticket - except for just being allowed onto a platform, or when an Avantix has decided to go on strike.

However, I do know that at one major local station, the replacement buses are dispatched a long way from the concourse, so the unofficial policy for those is that the passenger should not be made to walk the quarter mile back the way they came if they only need to buy a ticket - instead, an RPI should turn up at the bus area to sell tickets, but if they're not there, a passenger can buy at their interchange/destination. They are given an advice slip if there are RPIs at the other end. I suspect this sort of thing happens a fair bit, in varying ways. I can't reveal too much about the slips, but suffice to say that they are unique to a given time period and given out by discretion only.

I know that at least some TOCs give guards special pads with tear-off slips giving various complimentary options for passengers (for example, refreshments during disruption), but I'm not sure how many pads would have the option to give out free travel if staff felt it necessary. If it's a common feature, perhaps they should be used more - presumably they're less hassle than ticket selling.