Not served by rail - Venues/ Malls etc

[AGH]

Difficult to put a concise title to this but always wondered why certain places with high footfall and/or car use aren't served either directly or indirectly by rail where better connections could be relatively speaking used / extended or added to.

I live in the NW of England. Liverpool airport is close to the WCML Liverpool branch to be connected and yet a bus from South Parkway (not even dedicated) is the best offer. Relatively simple to connect and make use of better connections?

Anfield is another that continues to bemuse. Freight only line within walking distance. Evertons new ground is walking distance from Sandhills but surely will need upgrading to cope.

Lastly (for now) the Trafford centre had a heavy rail connection ending in a now redundant site next to one of their car parks so they built a tram instead. Odd or was it a cost issue?

Manchester airport is an example where it can be right but what do you posters think could/ should be done in your area.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If the Trafford Centre had been served by the nearby branch line, it would have required a dedicated service from the city centre which would mean finding (and more importantly funding) an additional unit and crews to operate it. Compare this to Meadowhall which had an existing passenger line passing the site- so providing a station was easier as the trains already existed. No additional units or crews required, so only the station itself required additional funding.

 

[mrcheek]

sometimes, serving a new venue is more problematic than it seems.

Consider the case of Coventry Arena, where West Midlands Trains initially withdrew services whenever events were held there, to avoid overcrowding.....

 

[py_megapixel]

If the Trafford Centre had been served by the nearby branch line, it would have required a dedicated service from the city centre which would mean finding (and more importantly funding) an additional unit and crews to operate it. Compare this to Meadowhall which had an existing passenger line passing the site- so providing a station was easier as the trains already existed. No additional units or crews required, so only the station itself required additional funding.

Perhaps more relevant now than when the Trafford Centre was built, but serving it by heavy rail would also mean an extra service to somehow fit onto Castlefield corridor.

There is no way it would be able to achieve anything like the 5tph Metrolink offers now!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Manchester airport is an example where it can be right but what do you posters think could/ should be done in your area.

Compare and contrast with Glasgow Airport, where a heavy rail link from Glasgow Central via Paisley Gilmour Street has been proposed for some considerable time, but hasn't yet been built, and possibly may well never be.

 

[The Planner]

Anfield is another that continues to bemuse. Freight only line within walking distance. Evertons new ground is walking distance from Sandhills but surely will need upgrading to cope.

Who is responsible for dealing with that though? surely it shouldn't be down to the railway to fund, the clubs should be funding a significant chunk of it in my view.

 

[SargeNpton]

Compare and contrast with Glasgow Airport, where a heavy rail link from Glasgow Central via Paisley Gilmour Street has been proposed for some considerable time, but hasn't yet been built, and possibly may well never be.

I believe that a change to the Scottish parliament put paid to the idea. Same with the idea of re-opening the line through Gorbals and reopening some stations.

Different party comes into power with different policies. Happens all the time.

 

[GatwickDepress]

The idea of reopening the previous station (closed 1915) at Glyne Gap between St Leonards Warrior Square and Bexhill to serve the Ravenside Retail Park and Bulverhythe comes up every few years. It would no doubt be well-used, but likely not enough to justify construction and potentially would also affect Stagecoach's 98/99 services.

 

[D6130]

Alton Towers.

 

[The Planner]

Alton Towers.

Are they paying?

 

[faltskog36abba]

Manchester city has a rail line right next to it, That connects the Victoria lines and Piccadilly lines. Its used by goods trains, There was talk of diverting Marple/Sheffield trains along here a while back and building a station. However it came to nothing and is served by the Tram, As HTAFC has said if a rail service was already using the route it would be more cheaper to provide a service. I also agree with another poster that the venue should stump up half the cost.

 

[AGH]

My view as to payment for such work has to be a combination. The direct beneficiary being venue, airport etc, the local authority, national government (strategic plan for reducing emissions etc) and the rail organisation who will get increased revenue against any cost.

It has to be joined up thinking though. Anfield having a station would massively benefit a deprived area and relive significant traffic on event days. Also if utilised properly other adjacent areas would benefit from a rail service.

Out of town shopping developments are by and large car reliant. That is unsustainable and planning can play a part in that.

 

[6Gman]

Difficult to put a concise title to this but always wondered why certain places with high footfall and/or car use aren't served either directly or indirectly by rail where better connections could be relatively speaking used / extended or added to.

I live in the NW of England. Liverpool airport is close to the WCML Liverpool branch to be connected and yet a bus from South Parkway (not even dedicated) is the best offer. Relatively simple to connect and make use of better connections?

Anfield is another that continues to bemuse. Freight only line within walking distance. Evertons new ground is walking distance from Sandhills but surely will need upgrading to cope.

Lastly (for now) the Trafford centre had a heavy rail connection ending in a now redundant site next to one of their car parks so they built a tram instead. Odd or was it a cost issue?

Manchester airport is an example where it can be right but what do you posters think could/ should be done in your area.

I think there was a dedicated link from South Parkway to the Airport at one time wasn't there?

But given there are other services it was little used.

If you're suggesting a rail link I don't think "relatively simple to connect" is true!

On Anfield you don't provide a rail service for a venue that attracts huge crowds on 30 occasions a year at wildly different times and days.

 

[London Trains]

Thorpe Park - both road and rail connections seem to avoid the place, it is right next to both the M25 and M3 but has no connection to either!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Thorpe Park - both road and rail connections seem to avoid the place, it is right next to both the M25 and M3 but has no connection to either!

There used to be a bus link from Staines, presumably that didn't survive the pandemic?

 

[D6130]

Are they paying?

I very much doubt it! That's why it will never happen.

 

[Bartsimho]

Who is responsible for dealing with that though? surely it shouldn't be down to the railway to fund, the clubs should be funding a significant chunk of it in my view.

Maybe a plan put together and then proposed to Merseyrail, Liverpool Council and Liverpool Football Club.

Would also need some tunnels from Edge Hill to Liverpool Central and a passenger only chord by Kirkdale station.

Could then run an outer loop taking in all those people from the fairly deprived eastern edges of the city on Seaforth Container Terminal Branch

 

[lachlan]

There used to be a bus link from Staines, presumably that didn't survive the pandemic?

Definitely still there though when I used it a couple years ago the buses were completely overloaded

 

[Bletchleyite]

Regarding the Merseyside stadia, the integrated "Soccerbus" service from Sandhills which has been around for ages is probably a more economic way to do it.

 

[duncanp]

The National Memorial Arboretum in Alrewas, Staffordshire is right next to the Lichfield to Burton on Trent freight only line, and the site of a station which was closed in 1965.

It is also used as a diversionary route for passenger services, so the track and signalling is in situ and maintained to the correct standard.

The Arboretum is poorly served by existing bus services so a station would be useful.

 

[The Planner]

Maybe a plan put together and then proposed to Merseyrail, Liverpool Council and Liverpool Football Club.

Would also need some tunnels from Edge Hill to Liverpool Central and a passenger only chord by Kirkdale station.

Could then run an outer loop taking in all those people from the fairly deprived eastern edges of the city on Seaforth Container Terminal Branch

You would take the simplest option. Stick a station near Anfield and a shuttle to Lime St.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2023 ==

The National Memorial Arboretum in Alrewas, Staffordshire is right next to the Lichfield to Burton on Trent freight only line, and the site of a station which was closed in 1965.

It is also used as a diversionary route for passenger services, so the track and signalling is in situ and maintained to the correct standard.

The Arboretum is poorly served by existing bus services so a station would be useful.

What would serve it?

 

[SargeNpton]

The National Memorial Arboretum in Alrewas, Staffordshire is right next to the Lichfield to Burton on Trent freight only line, and the site of a station which was closed in 1965.

It is also used as a diversionary route for passenger services, so the track and signalling is in situ and maintained to the correct standard.

The Arboretum is poorly served by existing bus services so a station would be useful.

A new station at Arlewas has been suggested, as in the link below, though whether that idea has survived last year's multiple ministerial changes is anybody's guess.

New station proposed for National Arboretum | Railnews | Today's news for Tomorrow's railway

www.railnews.co.uk

IT has been revealed that a new station is being proposed at Alrewas between Lichfield Trent Valley high level and Wichnor Junction, which is on the line linking Tamworth and Burton-on-Trent. The original station serving the village of Alrewas was closed in 1965, although the line remained open.

A new Alrewas station would serve the National Memorial Arboretum, which is visited by more than 300,000 people a year and stages 250 events, including services of remembrance. It includes a Railway Industry Memorial, which was unveiled in May 2012, and also a memorial commemorating the thousands of prisoners of war who were forced to work on the infamous Burma Railway in the Second World War.

 

[Bartsimho]

You would take the simplest option. Stick a station near Anfield and a shuttle to Lime St.

I guess the areas along the old freight line would just have to suck it up that they aren't cared for again.

You have an existing line within the inner ring road, passing through deprived areas with a singular massive traffic source on matchdays where many from these areas want to go not only those by Lime Street. A local transport operator which invests in its rail network.

The line could run as a loop connecting with the new stadium for Everton as well so can move supporters from the areas they live to their new stadium as well.

A refusal to look beyond a shuttle is disappointing especially when you have 2 wealthy football clubs with very wealthy owners you could try and convince to provide some funding as well.

Could also place a station directly at the University as well as it's between Lime Street and Edge Hill and on a route from Central to Edge Hill

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 1970s Merseyrail plans did consider the loops as viable services. They'd be slow, but as all of Merseyrail (and similar metro systems) is I think they would still be reasonably well used.

The Edinburgh "suburban" is similar.

 

[The Planner]

I guess the areas along the old freight line would just have to suck it up that they aren't cared for again.

You have an existing line within the inner ring road, passing through deprived areas with a singular massive traffic source on matchdays where many from these areas want to go not only those by Lime Street. A local transport operator which invests in its rail network.

But you are going full on gold plating new tunnels and a loop line etc etc. If that is the method of getting Anfield a station then it doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Bartsimho]

But you are going full on gold plating new tunnels and a loop line etc etc. If that is the method of getting Anfield a station then it doesn't stand a chance.

I was going for a way to connect it into the existing Merseyrail network and with potential support if proposed to the rich owners of the 2 football clubs it could get a big chunk of financial backing.

Allowing it to be more segregated from the Mainline into the Merseyrail Metro style network as well.

I guess making a plan even if it can't be funded right now but one which achieves goals (serve deprived areas of the city) and has the potential for private funding from some very wealthy individuals and groups should be at least explored.

I mean Private firms investing in railway tunnels to allow services to them hasn't been done before has it?

(Oh wait the Battersea extension of LU or the Jubilee Line extension to Canary Wharf and the docklands). Create a plan to help regenerate deprived areas of the city (where there is a publicly owned operator) and tie it into places which allow for outside investors as well.

 

[The Planner]

I was going for a way to connect it into the existing Merseyrail network and with potential support if proposed to the rich owners of the 2 football clubs it could get a big chunk of financial backing.

Allowing it to be more segregated from the Mainline into the Merseyrail Metro style network as well.

I guess making a plan even if it can't be funded right now but one which achieves goals (serve deprived areas of the city) and has the potential for private funding from some very wealthy individuals and groups should be at least explored.

I mean Private firms investing in railway tunnels to allow services to them hasn't been done before has it?

(Oh wait the Battersea extension of LU or the Jubilee Line extension to Canary Wharf and the docklands). Create a plan to help regenerate deprived areas of the city (where there is a publicly owned operator) and tie it into places which allow for outside investors as well.

The football clubs would go for the cheapest option, ie a station on the existing line without anything else. If its a wider thing then their contribution just about puts a dent in it and by the time it could come to fruition you could see Liverpool even move from Anfield. What is the end game?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Regarding the Merseyside stadia, the integrated "Soccerbus" service from Sandhills which has been around for ages is probably a more economic way to do it.

Recall there used to be a Tranmere Rovers version advertised as running from Hamilton Square... but when I turned up expecting to find it, was told by Merseyrail staff that "that hasn't run for years!"

 

[Iskra]

If the Trafford Centre had been served by the nearby branch line, it would have required a dedicated service from the city centre which would mean finding (and more importantly funding) an additional unit and crews to operate it. Compare this to Meadowhall which had an existing passenger line passing the site- so providing a station was easier as the trains already existed. No additional units or crews required, so only the station itself required additional funding.

And of course it effectively replaced Brightside station with a much more useful one on less of a bottleneck. Brightside would have needed upgrading at some point anyway to modern standards, so it was probably easier to start from scratch just up the line.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jul 2023 ==

Alton Towers.

Are they paying?

Isn't this a potential aspiration for the Churnet Valley Railway after they've finished the line to Leek?

 

[ChrisC]

The National Memorial Arboretum in Alrewas, Staffordshire is right next to the Lichfield to Burton on Trent freight only line, and the site of a station which was closed in 1965.

It is also used as a diversionary route for passenger services, so the track and signalling is in situ and maintained to the correct standard.

The Arboretum is poorly served by existing bus services so a station would be useful.

Visiting the National Memorial Arboretum by bus is not easy. I recently considered booking a few nights in a hotel in Lichfield and travelling to the Aboretum by bus one day. The website suggests it is a 20-30 minute walk from the bus stop in Alrewas Village and gives directions. I‘m quite happy to walk but after reading the somewhat complicated directions and studying the route on an OS map and Google Earth I decided not to bother. It looks a very unpleasant walk negotiating large traffic roundabouts and slip roads from the A38. I decided it will be easier to drive there down the A38 from home in Nottinghamshire one day. I know it’s a very popular visitor attraction but I do wonder if it can’t even support a bus service to it would many people travel there by train.