Not PC on LM

[meridian2]

Because there's more to it than discipline.

Apart from the fact that it's interesting to have these sorts of discussions, we as a society need to be more than just completely reactive to this sort of thing.

I'm going to shock you here but I agree. It just saddens me that it's futile to expect our society to be anything but pro-active.

 

[34D]

In the same way that "Beware pickpockets and blacks" would only be directed at the nasty ones who go around stealing things? NOT at the decent black folk?

I don't think your racist comments against the decent black folk are fair at all. I work with two very nice black men and would deal swiftly with any racism against them.

The point is though that the gypsies/diddicoys/pikeys have a reputation for stealing things. We had hundreds of pounds of diesel stolen by them not that long ago.

Noone is tarring anyone with the same brush, and I accept that there are decent people from that community.

What I _am_ bothered about though is the trouble that occurs

 

[Greenback]

I don't think your racist comments against the decent black folk are fair at all. I work with two very nice black men and would deal swiftly with any racism against them.

Are you deliberately missing the point? Or am I?

The point is though that the gypsies/diddicoys/pikeys have a reputation for stealing things. We had hundreds of pounds of diesel stolen by them not that long ago.

Perhaps the reputation is based on prejudice and stereotyping more than hard facts?

I mean, you know the people responsible for stealing the diesel, and you know that they identify themselves as gypsies, rather than being identified by others as gypsies?

Noone is tarring anyone with the same brush, and I accept that there are decent people from that community.

There are decent people in every community, so why should they be labelled the same way as criminals, whether they are black, brown, white, yellow, gypsy or anything else?

 

[reb0118]

"pikeys"

What's wrong with "pikeys"? I have always assumed it is a contraction for a person who walks the turnpike another term for a toll road.

Where's the abuse in that?

..........Irish Travellers are recognised as a race of people under the Equality Act.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/engla...psies_and_travellers__race_discrimination.htm............

Why? Are the Irish not the same race as us?

 

[Deerfold]

I don't think your racist comments against the decent black folk are fair at all. I work with two very nice black men and would deal swiftly with any racism against them.

Fahad is showing how bad the comment looks with "blacks" in and asking why it's any better with "gypsies" in.

The point is though that the gypsies/diddicoys/pikeys have a reputation for stealing things. We had hundreds of pounds of diesel stolen by them not that long ago.

And black people and Jews (and...) have had reputations for all sorts of things. Which no doubt (in the same way as with Gypsies) applies to some of them. But by no means all.

Noone is tarring anyone with the same brush, and I accept that there are decent people from that community.

That's not how the comment came across (to some at least).

Why?

The Irish (especially travellers) have been subject to quite a lot of prejudice in fairly recent times.

My grandfather told me about his experiences of moving to England and seeing the "No Blacks, No Irish, no dogs" signs at various providers of accommodation.

 

[the sniper]

I haven't really been following this thread but my only thoughts on the subject are, seeing how the conversation has gone, is that I can't choose to be Black (as a White British person) but I could choose to adopt the lifestyle of a Gypsy/Traveller. I couldn't choose to be a Romany Gypsy or Irish Traveller*, which are recognised as a race under UK law due to their ethnic origin. But then, the Guard didn't say anything about Romany Gypsies or Irish Travellers.

*Personally I wouldn't call Irish Travellers, White Irish or White British people a race at all. They're all just White European. I'd include White Americans, Canadians and Australasians of European descent as White European.

Gypsies and Irish Travellers are recognised as a race of people under the Equality Act.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/engla...psies_and_travellers__race_discrimination.htm

So yes, it is racism.

Substitute any other racial description, lets say "black", for "gypsy" and the comment- regardless of the intent- would see the guard getting very familiar with his P45.

To quote the page that Troll surprisingly used in defence of his argument:

Are all Gypsies and Travellers protected against race discrimination?

The courts have said that Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers are protected against race discrimination because they’re ethnic groups under the Equality Act.

Gypsies and Travellers who have not been recognised as ethnic groups by the courts, are not currently protected against race discrimination under the Equality Act.

Who are Gypsies and Travellers?

The travelling community is a term used to describe people with a nomadic lifestyle, known usually as Gypsies and Travellers.

The travelling community includes:

Romany Gypsies
Irish Travellers
Scottish Gypsies and Travellers
Welsh Gypsies and Travellers
New Travellers or New Age Travellers
bargees and other people living in boats
fairground and circus families, known as travelling showmen.

As above the general terms 'Gypsy' and 'Traveller' covers a lot of people, many of whom the law doesn't recognise as a race. Both terms are used interchangeably in many peoples heads. If you say Black, there's no ambiguity that you're talking about a race of people. The two just aren't the same, so the 'what if the Guard had said 'beware pickpockets and blacks'' argument sounds ridiculous to me...

 

[RichmondCommu]

http://news.sky.com/story/1228638/train-announcer-warns-of-gypsies-and-thieves


A "staff development need" identified or perhaps worse?

Disgraceful. Let’s hope he gets the sack.

 

[Zoidberg]

Disgraceful. Let’s hope he gets the sack.

You hope that the guy gets the sack?

Disgraceful.

 

[the sniper]

Disgraceful. Let’s hope he gets the sack.

Just out of curiosity, what would you do with all those people who laughed? The joke went down quite well well with its audience and no one complained prior to this video being published.

What the person said wasn't right, but in the grand scheme of things...

 

[Deerfold]

Just out of curiosity, what would you do with all those people who laughed? The joke went down quite well well with its audience and no one complained prior to this video being published.

You know no-one complained?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Just out of curiosity, what would you do with all those people who laughed? The joke went down quite well well with its audience and no one complained prior to this video being published.

What the person said wasn't right, but in the grand scheme of things...

I would have told them to shut the something up. And then watched the smile disappear off their faces. Pathetic. I hope that has satisfied your curiosity.

Train Managers / Guards are not there to crack jokes.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You hope that the guy gets the sack?

Disgraceful.

Yes I do. You cannot go around making comments like that. He clearly didn't think about the consequences of his actions and who he might have offended.

There was abolutely no need to say what he did.

 

[Deerfold]

I would have told them to shut the something up. And then watched the smile disappear off their faces. Pathetic. I hope that has satisfied your curiosity.

Train Managers / Guards are not there to crack jokes.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Yes I do. You cannot go around making comments like that. He clearly didn't think about the consequences of his actions and who he might have offended.

There was abolutely no need to say what he did.

No, but if everyone was sacked for a first offence this'd be a far scarier world.

 

[RichmondCommu]

No, but if everyone was sacked for a first offence this'd be a far scarier world.

Perhaps, but it would set a precedent and ensure that his actions were not repeated.

 

[Smudger105e]

What's wrong with "pikeys"? I have always assumed it is a contraction for a person who walks the turnpike another term for a toll road.

Where's the abuse in that?

But surely, using that as an argument, it would be acceptable to describe Pakistani people as Pakis? I don't think that is acceptable in any shape or form.

But of course, some of these terms used to be acceptable, but the passage of time and development of society has meant that these terms have taken on a different aspect. It is for this reason that 'Love Thy Neighbour' is never shown on Gold, whereas 'Please Sir', 'Steptoe & Son' and others are.

Although 'Till Death Us Do Part' blows my agrument out of the water a bit as that is repeated :roll: :neutral:

 

[Deerfold]

Although 'Till Death Us Do Part' blows my agrument out of the water a bit as that is repeated :roll: :neutral:

Alf Garnett was not supposed to be a pleasant character - the idea was people would not see anything he did as being what pleasant people were supposed to do.

However not everyone who found the programme amusing realised that.

 

[455driver]

Perhaps, but it would set a precedent and ensure that his actions were not repeated.

I would hope that you would use those same rules against passengers that currently abuse railstaff at the drop of a hat and wouldnt mind the delays while the train is held waiting for the Police to turn up, I have heard quite a few instances where railstaff have been the subject of racist abuse but we are expected to just brush it off arent we!

Its funny how nobody shouts up about that but a member of railstaff makes a (very bad taste) joke and you are calling for him to be sacked and locked up. :roll:

Maybe if it was a level playing field with zero tolerance for all but that isnt what you want is it!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is for this reason that 'Love Thy Neighbour' is never shown on Gold,

I used to enjoy watching that simply because the 'other' person (mustnt use the B word :roll always came out on top of the bigotted (mustnt use the W word :roll person.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I would hope that you would use those same rules against passengers that currently abuse railstaff at the drop of a hat and wouldnt mind the delays while the train is held waiting for the Police to turn up, I have heard quite a few instances where railstaff have been the subject of racist abuse but we are expected to just brush it off arent we!

Its funny how nobody shouts up about that but a member of railstaff makes a (very bad taste) joke and you are calling for him to be sacked and locked up. :roll:

Maybe if it was a level playing field with zero tolerance for all but that isnt what you want is it!

You have no idea who I am! How do you know what I want? And yes I would stand up for rail staff that were being abused, racially or otherwise. I'm sorry that I've not replied in a manner that suits you.

And where did I state that I wanted someone locked up? I will always stand up for someone who has suffered because of the actions of others. Once again I'm sorry if that isn't the response that you were hoping for.

 

[ECML180]

And where did I state that I wanted someone locked up? I will always stand up for someone who has suffered because of the actions of others. Once again I'm sorry if that isn't the response that you were hoping for.

Suppose I was a courier driving a van, and pulled out in front of someone at what I considered a safe distance but the other driver didn't. They have suffered and been offended. A simple misjudgement that looking back I realise was a bad idea and I would be much more careful next time. Should I be sacked for one mistake?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Suppose I was a courier driving a van, and pulled out in front of someone at what I considered a safe distance but the other driver didn't. They have suffered and been offended. A simple misjudgement that looking back I realise was a bad idea and I would be much more careful next time. Should I be sacked for one mistake?

Oh don't be so ridiculous! Are you seriously suggesting that the example that you have offered can be anyway compared to the disgraceful remark made by the Train Manager?

 

[Zoidberg]

Oh don't be so ridiculous! Are you seriously suggesting that the example that you have offered can be anyway compared to the disgraceful remark made by the Train Manager?

Oh, from where did you get the idea that it was the Train Manager who made the announcement?

I thought from a previous post that thoughts were that an off-duty member of staff made it.

EDIT: It was in post #126.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Oh, from where did you get the idea that it was the Train Manager who made the announcement?

I thought from a previous post that thoughts were than an off-duty member of staff made it.

I couldn't care less who made the announcement, that is completely irrelevant. The point is whoever made that announcement should be punished.

 

[the sniper]

You know no-one complained?

That's what the original Sky article says...

London Midland said they had not received any complaints about the incident on the 17.25 Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury service, but that an inquiry was under way.

http://news.sky.com/story/1228638/train-announcer-warns-of-gypsies-and-thieves

I would have told them to shut the something up. And then watched the smile disappear off their faces. Pathetic. I hope that has satisfied your curiosity.

So because you were offended on behalf of Gypsies, you'd directly offend a large number of strangers in person by swearing at them? Two wrongs don't make a right. Though if you're sacking the member of staff for what they said as an ill-judged joke, would you be seeking to report yourself to the Police for committing an offence under S5 POA? After all, no wrong should go unpunished.

 

[RichmondCommu]

So because you were offended on behalf of Gypsies, you'd directly offend a large number of strangers in person by swearing at them? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Are you attempting to defend them for laughing at that disgraceful remark? Do you think they were right to laugh? Would you have laughed with them? Frankly they would have deserved all they got.

If they can laugh at that remark they can cope with me swearing at them. Are you suggesting that they would have not deserved being sworn at?

Though if you're sacking the member of staff for what they said as an ill-judged joke, would you be seeking to report yourself to the Police for committing an offence under S5 POA? After all, no wrong should go unpunished.

Yes I would have reported what I'd said to the Police. I think you and I know what the outcome would have been.

 

[Clip]

Are you attempting to defend them for laughing at that disgraceful remark? Do you think they were right to laugh? Would you have laughed with them? Frankly they would have deserved all they got.

If they can laugh at that remark they can cope with me swearing at them. Are you suggesting that they would have not deserved being sworn at?

.

Ahh so you are outraged at the comment but yet see no hypocrisy in the fact that you would swear at them... Gotta love you for that. Brilliant. Well done.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Ahh so you are outraged at the comment but yet see no hypocrisy in the fact that you would swear at them... Gotta love you for that. Brilliant. Well done.

So what would you have said to them? Would you have laughed with them? Are you suggesting that they would have not deserved to be sworn at? Having laughed at a racist joke do you think that they would have been offended by someone swearing at them?

Oh and by the way thanks for the compliment. Most unlike you but never the less very welcome. It's good to know that you don't hold grudges against your fellow forum members.

 

[Clip]

So what would you have said to them? Would you have laughed with them? Are you suggesting that they would have not deserved to be sworn at? Having laughed at a racist joke do you think that they would have been offended by someone swearing at them?

Oh and by the way thanks for the compliment. Most unlike you but never the less very welcome. It's good to know that you don't hold grudges against your fellow forum members.

No one deserves to be sworn at, in fact by doing so you have shown yourself to be no better than them, even though you are trying to come across like you're the better person.

Ill tell you something though, you're not.

Oh, I never hold grudges, I just hate everyone equally.

 

[RichmondCommu]

No one deserves to be sworn at, in fact by doing so you have shown yourself to be no better than them, even though you are trying to come across like you're the better person.

Ill tell you something though, you're not.

Oh, I never hold grudges, I just hate everyone equally.

Answer the question, would you have laughed with them? What would you have said to them?
Swearing at them would have made them think about their shameful behaviour. Are you suggesting that I would have had no right to be angry with them?

Do you think their behaviour was shameful? Would I have been right to swear at them if they had racially abused a member of the train crew?

 

[Clip]

Answer the question, would you have laughed with them? What would you have said to them?
Swearing at them would have made them think about their shameful behaviour. Are you suggesting that I would have had no right to be angry with them?

Do you think their behaviour was shameful? Would I have been right to swear at them if they had racially abused a member of the train crew?

Why would I have laughed at something that isnt funny?

I would've told them to shut up and I would make a report against them for what they had said.

Yes their behaviour is shameful, what were you expecting me to say?

You have no right to swear at anyone. Most people when they swear at others - especially when they do not know them and especially at rail staff, swear at them with some menace in their voice too.

You are no better than them. Get off your high horse and settle down petal.

 

[RichmondCommu]

You have no right to swear at anyone. Most people when they swear at others - especially when they do not know them and especially at rail staff, swear at them with some menace in their voice too.

You are no better than them. Get off your high horse and settle down petal.

What has swearing at rail staff got to do with this? Having laughed at a racist remark are you suggesting that they didn't deserve to be sworn at? Are you suggesting that they didn't deserve to be on the receiving end of a remark made with menace?

 

[Clip]

What has swearing at rail staff got to do with this? Having laughed at a racist remark are you suggesting that they didn't deserve to be sworn at? Are you suggesting that they didn't deserve to be on the receiving end of a remark made with menace?

Are you stupid? I have said twice now that by swearing at them makes you no better than them. Do you purposely ignore this to try and come across as the better person.

No one deserves to be on the end of someone swearing at them and especially with menace.


I hope by bolding,underlining and putting this in italics fully illustrates to you what I have said three times now.