Northumberland Line reopening: progress updates

[507020]

Again this is fiction I'm afraid.

I don’t think even the delays of Crossrail can trump those seen at Portishead, even though it was started by Network SouthEast…

 

[The exile]

Because Okehampton and London are famous for being in the north.

Explained badly: the “levelling up” agenda, with all that that entails, seems to be focussed almost entirely on “the north”. There are other areas that also need levelling up - though I fully accept that North Somerset is nowhere near the top of the list!

 

[zwk500]

I don’t think even the delays of Crossrail can trump those seen at Portishead, even though it was started by Network SouthEast…

That depends on when you define Crossrail as starting, given NSE at one point exhibited mockups of proposed trains for Crossrail. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Classes_341_and_342

But again, this is not the place.

 

[snowball]

I thought it was Portishead we hadn’t heard the decision for

A decision is also awaited for a Transport and Works Order for some aspects of the Northumberland line - I think mainly about alterations to level crossings. Other aspects of the scheme are covered by ordinary planning applications and I think all the latter have now been approved.

 

[Killingworth]

Newspapers have optimistically talked this project up for years, possibly decades. In March 2022 the Newcastle Chronicle said "Passenger services are due to be restored to the railway line from December 2023 or early 2024." See; https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/new...estone-northumberland-line-reopening-23268471

I'd have said timetabled services targeted for May 2024, or even December 2024 if anything major slips. It's those little details found along the way that confound best laid plans. But we're all speculating until all legal work is complete, contracts fully let and detailed construction phasing all confirmed.

 

[swt_passenger]

Newspapers have optimistically talked this project up for years, possibly decades. In March 2022 the Newcastle Chronicle said "Passenger services are due to be restored to the railway line from December 2023 or early 2024." See; https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/new...estone-northumberland-line-reopening-23268471

I'd have said timetabled services targeted for May 2024, or even December 2024 if anything major slips. It's those little details found along the way that confound best laid plans. But we're all speculating until all legal work is complete, contracts fully let and detailed construction phasing all confirmed.

Another ‘data point’, is that in the planning process a “request for a screening opinion” was made back in 2020, at that time the expected overall construction time was expected to be 30-40 months. Then as another example of possible timescales, the Newsham Station planning application (in Aug 2021) included possible dates for its build phases that run from Mar 2022 to Feb 2024. So there’s at least 2 years.

 

[Bald Rick]

It was more a point that many reopening proposals seem to seriously underestimate potential passenger numbers.

not so. What is ‘seriously’ underestimated is:

1) the rate at which traffic builds up to the forecast level, ie year 1 and 2 are underestimated, years 3 onwards tend not to be

2) the capital cost

3) the ability of Comms people to put out good news, but carefully avoid putting out bad news.


remember all those headlines about how Airdrie - Bathgate exceeded passenger forecasts? Or Corby? Or East Midlands Parkway? Ever wondered why those headlines didn’t appear?

 

[Starmill]

not so. What is ‘seriously’ underestimated is:

1) the rate at which traffic builds up to the forecast level, ie year 1 and 2 are underestimated, years 3 onwards tend not to be

2) the capital cost

3) the ability of Comms people to put out good news, but carefully avoid putting out bad news.


remember all those headlines about how Airdrie - Bathgate exceeded passenger forecasts? Or Corby? Or East Midlands Parkway? Ever wondered why those headlines didn’t appear?

Even then some of the demand forecasting has been found hopelessly optimistic. I'm looking at you Stratford-upon-Avon Parkway, Conon Bridge, Bermuda Park... However I'm quite confident that the Northumberland line won't be a repeat as weak as any of those.

 

[Cowley]

Ok. We’ll have one more go at saying can we keep on topic from here on please.

If there’s something you want to talk about that isn’t directly related to this then either start a new thread (possibly in the speculative section) or look for an existing one to post in like the existing one on Portishead.
Otherwise we’ll have to delete off topic posts from here.

Thank you very much!

 

[androdas]

In the spirit of keeping on topic the veg clearance has been done at Bebside including the section of the A189 where the new footbridge to the station is going, also Morgan Sindall on site at Seaton Delaval but its hard to see what they are doing from the road (Assuming more veg clearance)

 

[Swanley 59]

In the spirit of keeping on topic the veg clearance has been done at Bebside including the section of the A189 where the new footbridge to the station is going, also Morgan Sindall on site at Seaton Delaval but its hard to see what they are doing from the road (Assuming more veg clearance)

Has there been any track renewal work in the Ashington area? I passed over Green Lane level crossing today as a passenger in a car and, in a fleeting glance, the down line (in particular) looked in reasonably decent nick.

 

[androdas]

Has there been any track renewal work in the Ashington area? I passed over Green Lane level crossing today as a passenger in a car and, in a fleeting glance, the down line (in particular) looked in reasonably decent nick.

There has been quite a bit of engineering happening on the Blyth & Tyne recently especially around the level crossings (Marcheys House LC is closed all next weekend) not sure if that is routine or to do with the return of passenger services. I also think I read a while ago the line is due to be resignalled with the signal boxes going.

 

[Starmill]

I notice that yesterday was the last day of Northumberland County Council's Hospital Crossing consultation. I wonder if the Secretary of State's office needed this evidence before making a decision on the Application.

I'm informed that some licences necccesary for the handling of Great Crested Newts and some bats have been issued. Apparently some of the mine working remediation has also begun.

 

[ElectrostarBN]

Just happened to notice that there is an unadvertised service running as 2G01 Newcastle to Morpeth via Bedlington, returns as 2G02, back again later as 2G03 and finally back as 2G04

Saying in RTT as being on 14/06/22 and 16/06/22 only.

Wonder if people can actually travel on these or if they are just staff only?

 

[Haywain]

Wonder if people can actually travel on these or if they are just staff only?

Invitation only.

 

[adrock1976]

Are there any intentions to run the train to and from Gateshead Metrocentre, as this would eliminate an additional diesel train that terminates in the trainshed at Newcastle central?

 

[Mikey C]

I notice that yesterday was the last day of Northumberland County Council's Hospital Crossing consultation. I wonder if the Secretary of State's office needed this evidence before making a decision on the Application.

I'm informed that some licences necccesary for the handling of Great Crested Newts and some bats have been issued. Apparently some of the mine working remediation has also begun.

For a rare species, they seem to be remarkably common whenever you want to build something

 

[swt_passenger]

Are there any intentions to run the train to and from Gateshead Metrocentre, as this would eliminate an additional diesel train that terminates in the trainshed at Newcastle central?

They’ve never committed publicly to anything other than getting to Newcastle. For most of the time it’s been under consultation they were pretending it might be yet another new mini-TOC, with its own stock and dedicated depot somewhere on the route.
But logically it has to be Northern, as I’m sure you’d agree.

 

[Killingworth]

Just happened to notice that there is an unadvertised service running as 2G01 Newcastle to Morpeth via Bedlington, returns as 2G02, back again later as 2G03 and finally back as 2G04

Saying in RTT as being on 14/06/22 and 16/06/22 only.

Wonder if people can actually travel on these or if they are just staff only?

Interesting movements which may confirm what some have suspected. It would make sense to work these services with the Carlisle line, at least as far as the Metrocentre or Hexham.

 

[Haywain]

Interesting movements which may confirm what some have suspected.

What do you think they are confirming?

 

[swt_passenger]

What do you think they are confirming?

I think yesterday the first down train formed off an incoming passenger service from Carlisle, and the second up train continued to Hexham. Maybe it’s too soon to draw conclusions…

But on the other hand it’s a slightly longer distance from Bedlington to Morpeth, than to Ashington; about 8 km vs 5 km. So it would seem to be a reasonable simulation of timings.

 

[Haywain]

I think yesterday the first down train formed off an incoming passenger service from Carlisle, and the second up train continued to Hexham. Maybe it’s too soon to draw conclusions…

I would imagine that's just where there is stock available for these trains. On any other day the stock appears to spend the best part of 5 hours sitting in Newcastle station.

 

[Killingworth]

I would imagine that's just where there is stock available for these trains. On any other day the stock appears to spend the best part of 5 hours sitting in Newcastle station.

Indeed, and by the time this new line opens that unit could run a couple of round trips to Ashington in that time and other redeployments will be necessary.

If you've driven up the A1(M) towards Newcastle on a Saturday you'll certainly notice the jam as traffic from Sunderland joins just before the Angel of the North. There's similar demand for the Metrocentre from North of the Tyne, mostly served by car. Getting more direct rail services from both north and south of the Tyne to the Metrocentre seems to have merit (although Newcastle city centre and the Eldon Centre may not agree). A Sunderland - Ashington route? Probably not.

 

[snowball]

The TWAO applied for by Northumberland County Council has been made. It seems to be mainly about level crossings. Is this the last piece of legal powers needed?

Northumberland Line: Transport and Works Act order

Approval to reintroduce passenger rail services to the existing railway line between Ashington in the County of Northumberland and Newcastle.

www.gov.uk

Details​

Approval by the Secretary of State for Transport to authorise Northumberland County Council to acquire compulsory land and rights in land, close level crossings in connection with development to reintroduce passenger rail services between Ashington and Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

Application details​

This application is made under the Transport and Works Act 1992:

• order: Northumberland Line order
• application status: decision issued
• date of application: 26 May 2021
• applicant: Northumberland County Council via Pinsent Masons

 

[Snow1964]

The TWAO applied for by Northumberland County Council has been made. It seems to be mainly about level crossings. Is this the last piece of legal powers needed?

Northumberland Line: Transport and Works Act order

Approval to reintroduce passenger rail services to the existing railway line between Ashington in the County of Northumberland and Newcastle.

www.gov.uk

It is the last bulk legal powers but sometimes they have clauses referring to finalising agreements with specific named objectors, so strictly those would be legally settled at a later date.

 

[DanBlanchflowe]

This is good news for our North East. About 80,000 people live in the catchment area of this railway. They will get to the heart of our Regional Capital Newcastle in about half an hour. It will also give a similar number from the Whitley Bay area a faster journey into the City if they change from Metro at Northumberland Park.

 

[Swanley 59]

This is good news for our North East. About 80,000 people live in the catchment area of this railway. They will get to the heart of our Regional Capital Newcastle in about half an hour. It will also give a similar number from the Whitley Bay area a faster journey into the City if they change from Metro at Northumberland Park.

One of my earliest memories as a toddler is travelling on a packed train from Ashington to Whitley Bay. I don't suppose the reopening plans could be extended to include the Avenue branch?

 

[geoffk]

I was in Ashington last week and happened to talk to a local man at the site of the old station. He seemed to think that the new train service would run only to and from Northumberland Park Metro station, rather than into Newcastle. Was this ever the intention?

 

[CHAPS2034]

For a rare species, they seem to be remarkably common whenever you want to build something

The protection of the Great Crested Newt IIRC comes from European legislation. The species is very rare in Europe as a whole, but is commonly found in the UK.

 

[Anvil1984]

I was in Ashington last week and happened to talk to a local man at the site of the old station. He seemed to think that the new train service would run only to and from Northumberland Park Metro station, rather than into Newcastle. Was this ever the intention?

I don't think that has ever been discussed. The plan is to run to and from Newcastle platform 1