Northern wi-fi

[Dr Hoo]

Straightforward question - does anybody else have problems with Northern wi-fi at both stations or on train? Ever since I switched to an Apple iPhone around seven years ago I have never, ever, been able to 'log on'. The 'network' usually shows but invariably stalls, usually as 'not trusted'. This spooks everything else, notably 4G, so I have to disable the wi-fi to do things like paying for RingGo parking at the station or checking realtime trains, opentraintimes or whatever.

My phone is happy to log on to East Midlands, CrossCountry, LNER, Avanti, etc. when I give it a chance.

Replies from 'ordinary passengers' especially welcome. I am sure that staff devices are properly configured.

 

[sansyy]

I've noticed this on Merseyrail and other TOCs that use the same Wi-Fi provider on board and at stations (comera or something). Easiest way is navigate to http://captive.apple.com and 8 times out of 10 it'll redirect you to the login portal which will then allow access and fix all the "not trusted" errors. The reason a "not trusted" error appears is because when you are not authenticated with their network they have a certificate in place to middleman your traffic so it can redirect you to the portal and disallow internet access without being "logged in" and sometimes iPhone's especially struggle with logging in (not sure why as an iPhone user myself its always hit or miss with comera Wi-Fi) Sometimes website can bypass it, I especially notice iMessage and Google will ignore these certificates and can still be used without logged in. Sometimes when you've used the Wi-Fi before, the iPhone will try and use the previous token or credentials used to try and authenticate you again without you needing to do anything but usually this fails due to the same Wi-Fi name being in use in multiple locations (e.g. every Northern train has the same Wi-Fi name, so the iPhone will try authenticate it with another trains credentials and therefore the train you are now on doesn't know who you are and will refuse it).

 

[Killingworth]

I log on to Northern wifi on trains and at stations without significant issues - although there are numerous spots on the Sheffield-Manchester route where I get no mobile signal and wifi will probably drop out too.

Using Android on a Samsung phone.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Thanks for responses. I have no immediate plans to use Northern (and am well used to the lack of mobile phone signals in the Peak Distict) but will bear them in mind when I next venture out.

 

[RAPC]

Have used a variety of Apple devices on Northern wifi with no issues. It is probably the only TOC wifi that I find reliable, on my regular route at least. (Preston to Manchester)

 

[zero]

Yes it's almost always a 'captive portal' issue.

If you use a VPN or adblocking or a browser that filters traffic or you've fiddled with your device's DNS settings or several other things, your device may be unable to reach the login page.

I've also found northern to be very reliable. EMR, XC are fine when the train isn't crowded, LNER and Avanti are often problematic for me, there was a period of 3 months when I couldn't use LNER wifi at all and I couldn't figure out why but then it resolved itself.

 

[Dr Hoo]

One of the things that I love about RailUK Forums is the way in which many well-meaning posters can turn any thread into what appears to an old technophobe like me as an advanced PhD Software Engineering seminar.

For the avoidance of doubt, I have never heard of a Captive Portal, don't know what a VPN is, couldn't find an adblocker if I wanted to, don't understand what a browser is, how filtering works, never knowingly met a DNS and certainly don't risk 'fiddling' with my settings.

Thank you for all your advice. I will give the "Easiest way is navigate to http://captive.apple.com " tip a crack when I'm next down at the station. I wasn't surprised that it had no effect other than a blank screen at home. Living in a house built of lead-rich limestone with walls two feet thick that is a natural Faraday cage and deep in a dale with no mobile signal anyway isn't a good start.

Thank goodness for hard-wired landlines and plug-in wi-fi boosters in every room.

 

[Dr Hoo]

So, on my first Northern trip for a while.

I gave the ‘captive.apple’ hack a try and it produced a blank white screen but with a very, very tiny “success” in the top left corner.

Well, size isn’t important as they say so success must mean success, right?

No. Back the usual “insecure network” as usual, with some gobbledegook about reconfiguring my router…. On a train? What does it all mean?

Perhaps the new government, after creating Great British Railways and Great British Energy might create a Great British Telecommunications to knit it all together.

 

[1D54]

Agree with # 5. I've never had problems on Northern. Avanti, XC are also fine. EMR can be hit and miss and I'm sure they often have it turned off altogether.

 

[py_megapixel]

On Northern trains I find it either works fine or isn't there at all (i.e. the network doesn't even appear for me to try and connect to in the first place). I've never tried to use it with any Apple devices though.

 

[xotGD]

I often find that my Outlook inbox on my work laptop won't update with Northern WiFi. Otherwise, generally works OK on laptop and phone.

 

[Trackman]

Don't bother with railway Wi-Fi unless really desperate.
As the topic says, Northern Wi-Fi, a couple of years ago I was at Man Vic sat on a 150 waiting to depart and my phone popped up with 'Connect to GWR Wi-Fi'

 

[skyhigh]

Perhaps the new government, after creating Great British Railways and Great British Energy might create a Great British Telecommunications to knit it all together.

To be honest I think it's a 'you' problem (or more specifically, your device) than the actual infrastructure. I have never had an issue with a fairly wide variety of devices.

 

[James H]

Can be useful to type Neverssl.com in your browser if you're having trouble with a captive portal

 

[Pete 1981]

Don't bother with railway Wi-Fi unless really desperate.
As the topic says, Northern Wi-Fi, a couple of years ago I was at Man Vic sat on a 150 waiting to depart and my phone popped up with 'Connect to GWR Wi-Fi

 

[Pete 1981]

When 150001/2 came up from the South West, that was the wi-fi onboard

 

[Dr Hoo]

Can be useful to type Neverssl.com in your browser if you're having trouble with a captive portal

I know that people are trying to help but have no idea what a ‘captive portal’ is.

I still find it totally surprising that a bog standard modern device that I’ve not (knowingly) ‘fiddled about with’ not only can’t log on to an ‘untrustworthy’ nationalised operator’s wi-fi but the very existence of this ‘untrustworthy’ network in the background at every Northern station and on every Northern train forces me to switch off the wi-go on my phone before I can even buy a ticket on my phone or check train running using 4G.

 

[TheTallOne]

I know that people are trying to help but have no idea what a ‘captive portal’ is.

I still find it totally surprising that a bog standard modern device that I’ve not (knowingly) ‘fiddled about with’ not only can’t log on to an ‘untrustworthy’ nationalised operator’s wi-fi but the very existence of this ‘untrustworthy’ network in the background at every Northern station and on every Northern train forces me to switch off the wi-go on my phone before I can even buy a ticket on my phone or check train running using 4G.

It is just a webpage that appears as you connect to the Wi-Fi network. It asks you to accept the terms of use and in some cases asks you to register/logon or at least enter an email address.

The alternative type of Wi-Fi is when you just join the network and enter the password directly into the phone, tablet, computer.

 

[Dr Hoo]

It is just a webpage that appears as you connect to the Wi-Fi network. It asks you to accept the terms of use and in some cases asks you to register/logon or at least enter an email address.

The alternative type of Wi-Fi is when you just join the network and enter the password directly into the phone, tablet, computer.

Well, every day is a school day. Thank you.

Unfortunately, never having actually been able to connect to the ‘untrustworthy’ Northern wi-fi network I’ve obviously never seen the Terms of Use, been able to register, enter an email address or anything else.

Northern wi-fi, wherever it manifests itself on platform or train, is just an impregnable firewall as far as my (very common, standard) phone is concerned. It’s top of the list of available networks of course but that’s as far as it goes.

 

[Killingworth]

For the last few days I've been unable to access Northern wifi on stations or trains. Is it just me or is there a greater problem?