Northern website not making multiple service cancellations easy to find

[TUC]

I noticed via a Facebook group that there are multiple Middlesbrough-Newcastle cancellations today 'due to more trains than usual needing repair at the same time' (As ever, whatever that means!).

08:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 09:31

08:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 09:28

10:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 11:32

10:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 11:27

12:15 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 13:27

12:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 13:34

14:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 15:32

14:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 15:27

16:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 17:29

16:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 17:27

18:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 19:31


I went on the Northern Service Updates page for more details https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/service-updates and initially was puzzled that no details appeared to be there. It gives one line where there is major disruption, several others where there are minor disruptions, and then a set of others listed as Good Service, but no mention of multiple Middlesbrough-Newcastle cancellations.

It is only after wading through the Good Service list that, below this at the bottom of the page, there is an 'Other Updates' dropdown, and it is here where the above cancellations can be found.

How can Northern think it is OK for such a large number of cancellations to be hidden in a drop down at the bottom of the page? Many people would go on the page, see their service was not on the Major or Minor Disruptions list and move on (Yes, I know there is a search box, but why would one necessarily use that if the list of lines with disruptions are apparently laid out?)

I suspect that Northern is using a very literalist approach of the Major Disruptions list being limited to those related to planned work, rather than also including where almost a whole day's service has been unexpectedly cancelled. That is really unhelpful and not customer-friendly.

 

[800001]

I noticed via a Facebook group that there are multiple Middlesbrough-Newcastle cancellations today 'due to more trains than usual needing repair at the same time' (As ever, whatever that means!).

08:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 09:31

08:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 09:28

10:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 11:32

10:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 11:27

12:15 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 13:27

12:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 13:34

14:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 15:32

14:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 15:27

16:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 17:29

16:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 17:27

18:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 19:31


I went on the Northern Service Updates page for more details https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/service-updates and initially was puzzled that no details appeared to be there. It gives one line where there is major disruption, several others where there are minor disruptions, and then a set of others listed as Good Service, but no mention of multiple Middlesbrough-Newcastle cancellations.

It is only after wading through the Good Service list that, below this at the bottom of the page, there is an 'Other Updates' dropdown, and it is here where the above cancellations can be found.

How can Northern think it is OK for such a large number of cancellations to be hidden in a drop down at the bottom of the page? Many people would go on the page, see their service was not on the Major or Minor Disruptions list and move on (Yes, I know there is a search box, but why would one necessarily use that if the list of lines with disruptions are apparently laid out?)

I suspect that Northern is using a very literalist approach of the Major Disruptions list being limited to those related to planned work, rather than also including where almost a whole day's service has been unexpectedly cancelled. That is really unhelpful and not customer-friendly.

More trains than usual meaning - They have a set amount of trains per day stood down for maintenance, however say a train is damaged due to a fatality, wheel flats caused by leaf fall, then they have more trains out of service for maintenance than they normally would, hence the cancellations.

 

[Killingworth]

I noticed via a Facebook group that there are multiple Middlesbrough-Newcastle cancellations today 'due to more trains than usual needing repair at the same time' (As ever, whatever that means!).

08:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 09:31

08:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 09:28

10:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 11:32

10:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 11:27

12:15 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 13:27

12:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 13:34

14:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 15:32

14:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 15:27

16:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 17:29

16:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 17:27

18:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 19:31


I went on the Northern Service Updates page for more details https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/service-updates and initially was puzzled that no details appeared to be there. It gives one line where there is major disruption, several others where there are minor disruptions, and then a set of others listed as Good Service, but no mention of multiple Middlesbrough-Newcastle cancellations.

It is only after wading through the Good Service list that, below this at the bottom of the page, there is an 'Other Updates' dropdown, and it is here where the above cancellations can be found.

How can Northern think it is OK for such a large number of cancellations to be hidden in a drop down at the bottom of the page? Many people would go on the page, see their service was not on the Major or Minor Disruptions list and move on (Yes, I know there is a search box, but why would one necessarily use that if the list of lines with disruptions are apparently laid out?)

I suspect that Northern is using a very literalist approach of the Major Disruptions list being limited to those related to planned work, rather than also including where almost a whole day's service has been unexpectedly cancelled. That is really unhelpful and not customer-friendly.

Very appropriate observation. Other updates! 1/3 of last Sunday's services on the Sheffield-Manchester route could be found in there on Saturday evening if you knew where to look. Crew shortages in that case.

 

[Snow1964]

More trains than usual meaning - They have a set amount of trains per day stood down for maintenance, however say a train is damaged due to a fatality, wheel flats caused by leaf fall, then they have more trains out of service for maintenance than they normally would, hence the cancellations.

This explains well why it happens, but ultimately was a historic miscalculation of how many spares would be needed, and time taken to fix them.

In blunt terms have run out of spare trains because their maintenance depot cannot repair them as fast as they get damaged or need repair or maintenance. They miscalculated their ability to repair them sufficiently quick enough. Either have too few trains for busy repair period, or maintenance depot is too small to cope.

Generally as trains get older, need more maintenance time, and lead time on spare parts can get longer, so should factor in less availability for aging trains. Simply they have overstretched themselves, and got caught with too few usable trains for timetable they agreed to months/years ago

 

[TUC]

One might hope that, ironically, the current staffing difficulties and related cancellations could release some trainsets to provide cover.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Nov 2024 ==

This explains well why it happens, but ultimately was a historic miscalculation of how many spares would be needed, and time taken to fix them.

In blunt terms have run out of spare trains because their maintenance depot cannot repair them as fast as they get damaged or need repair or maintenance. They miscalculated their ability to repair them sufficiently quick enough. Either have too few trains for busy repair period, or maintenance depot is too small to cope.

Generally as trains get older, need more maintenance time, and lead time on spare parts can get longer, so should factor in less availability for aging trains. Simply they have overstretched themselves, and got caught with too few usable trains for timetable they agreed to months/years ago

Wasn't the intention when ROSCOs were created to transfer such risks to them and/or train manufacturers so that they were contractually obliged to keep a specified number of trains available for service?

 

[Killingworth]

However the issue with Northern's disruptions pages is rather more seriously felt in the North-West where short notice cancellations are common due to train crew shortages.

 

[Peterthegreat]

However the issue with Northern's disruptions pages is rather more seriously felt in the North-West where short notice cancellations are common due to train crew shortages.

Apart from Sundays I'm not sure that is correct. Over ghe last month or so South Yorkshire has numerous on the day cancellations.

 

[Killingworth]

Apart from Sundays I'm not sure that is correct. Over ghe last month or so South Yorkshire has numerous on the day cancellations.

We're all experiencing misery, particularly on Sundays! Whatever the cause there are too many short notice cancellations appearing well down Northern's disruptions page merely as Other Updates. That's the point. Minor Disruptions for Northern are major to me if my train has been cancelled. They seem to be trying to hide them away.

As I write most are in the North West up to tomorrow mid-day, with the remainder around Huddersfield and Bradford. That picture will almost certainly change by the morning

 

[Swanley 59]

I noticed via a Facebook group that there are multiple Middlesbrough-Newcastle cancellations today 'due to more trains than usual needing repair at the same time' (As ever, whatever that means!).

08:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 09:31

08:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 09:28

10:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 11:32

10:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 11:27

12:15 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 13:27

12:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 13:34

14:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 15:32

14:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 15:27

16:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 17:29

16:17 Newcastle to Middlesbrough due 17:27

18:16 Middlesbrough to Newcastle due 19:31


I went on the Northern Service Updates page for more details https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/service-updates and initially was puzzled that no details appeared to be there. It gives one line where there is major disruption, several others where there are minor disruptions, and then a set of others listed as Good Service, but no mention of multiple Middlesbrough-Newcastle cancellations.

It is only after wading through the Good Service list that, below this at the bottom of the page, there is an 'Other Updates' dropdown, and it is here where the above cancellations can be found.

How can Northern think it is OK for such a large number of cancellations to be hidden in a drop down at the bottom of the page? Many people would go on the page, see their service was not on the Major or Minor Disruptions list and move on (Yes, I know there is a search box, but why would one necessarily use that if the list of lines with disruptions are apparently laid out?)

I suspect that Northern is using a very literalist approach of the Major Disruptions list being limited to those related to planned work, rather than also including where almost a whole day's service has been unexpectedly cancelled. That is really unhelpful and not customer-friendly.

Throw in a few partial cancellations, and it was another rough day on the Durham Coast - Tyne Valley service. Northern sees the additional Newcastle - Middlesbrough trains as a strictly optional service and therefore cancellations do not merit a mention in the Service Updates page.