Northern vs TfGM - ticket validity rules

[hairyhandedfool]

....Is there anyone else from Northern on here with any insight on that?....

It was definately in 'The Manual'/FRPP in the PTE section, I'll check iKB tomorrow but it should be there too.

 

[185]

Price of the cheapest qualifying weekly season ticket ?

I worked for GMPTE as a Rail Planning Officer from 1997-99, and can confirm my contractual Salford Crescent Annual ticket was valid at weekends. The weekend validity condition was widely known about at the time.

The rushed retail courses offered to guards by Northern Rail (West) are probably to blame for this mess. Northern HR Director Adrian Thompson stupidly introduced major changes to the training teams around five years ago and lost some excellent training department staff they inherited from ATN.

 

[table38]

Given how Northern react when we get things wrong, I think they owe MetroPleb £80

 

[MetroPleb]

Given how Northern react when we get things wrong, I think they owe MetroPleb £80

Actually, they do owe me £4.20, in a way.

After the incident, I also went to Wigan, so bought a Manchester STNS to Wigan STNS return ticket, to be on the safe side, which I think we have now clearly established that I didn't need. I just wasn't in the mood for another argument....

Not worth the effort now though.

 

[Muzer]

You can usually get unused tickets refunded. As you say, might not be worth the hassle though.

 

[Starmill]

Given how Northern react when we get things wrong, I think they owe MetroPleb £80

You never know!

 

[34D]

Actually, they do owe me £4.20, in a way.

After the incident, I also went to Wigan, so bought a Manchester STNS to Wigan STNS return ticket, to be on the safe side, which I think we have now clearly established that I didn't need. I just wasn't in the mood for another argument....

Not worth the effort now though.

I expect you'll get a refund, an apology plus one of those passes giving you two days unlimited travel on Northern - which I notionally value at £30 per day.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It was definately in 'The Manual'/FRPP in the PTE section, I'll check iKB tomorrow but it should be there too.

Okay, so the wording in iKB is....

....

Season Tickets

Normal instructions apply. Season Tickets valid to travel between any two points in Greater Manchester are valid for travel anywhere in the Greater Manchester ticketing area on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays.

....

 

[northwichcat]

I hadn't heard of such a rule before either.

I had but hadn't seen it publicised for a while so didn't know if it still operated. If you use TPE it can get even more complicated:

Customers holding a valid one month or longer Season Ticket may make their normal daily journey in First Class at weekends at no extra cost on First TransPennine Express services. Passenger Transport Executive (PTE) season tickets, for example, MetroCards, do not qualify for the weekend first class upgrade.

Someone could legitimately argue that Bolton to Manchester CTLZ ticket is not a PTE season ticket as it doesn't mention TfGM anywhere on it, while a ticket inspector could argue it is a PTE ticket as it's priced by TfGM.

 

[185]

Someone could legitimately argue that Bolton to Manchester CTLZ ticket is not a PTE ticket as it doesn't mention TfGM anywhere on it, while a ticket inspector could argue it is a PTE ticket as it's priced by TfGM.

A ticket covered by the TfGM scheme can be any two points within the GM area. So I'm buying an Oxford Road to Piccadilly one. No, maybe I won't :P

 

[mattdickinson]

Hello all,

I hope someone may be able to shed further light on this one, before I end up having to contact / complain to either of the above organisations.

I'm referring to this text, found on the TfGM website:

A rail season ticket between two stations in Greater Manchester allows you to travel by train anywhere in Greater Manchester at weekends and public holidays.

http://www.tfgm.com/journey_planning/Tickets/Pages/tickets_rail.aspx

As you may have guessed from the post being in this forum, I tried to travel under this rule on Good Friday, and was accused by Northern staff of... (well, hard to describe) ... something in between fare evasion and stupidity. Resulting a quick lengthy argument.

Whilst I was not penalised or reported this time, I was told quite directly that I was lucky to get off, they were doing me a favour, and if I get caught again I will be in trouble.

So my main concern is how to proceed in the future, because I will want to do this again. However in Northern's eyes, I have been warned about travelling without a valid ticket, and therefore a repeat, particularly if it involves one of the same staff, may result in delays / being reported / Northern's "£80 scheme" ... or worse

I don't believe I have done anything wrong, but the incident has left me stressed out and with pretty negative feelings about rail travel. Suddenly a bus pass is looking more tolerable!

I had a similar problem using my Oystercard containing a Chiltern issued z1-6 travelcard at Birmingham Snow Hill last weekend.

 

[Muzer]

I had a similar problem using my Oystercard containing a Chiltern issued z1-6 travelcard at Birmingham Snow Hill last weekend.

Hmm? Is there a rule allowing that?

 

[maniacmartin]

Hmm? Is there a rule allowing that?

From this page:

2. Special Benefits for Season Ticket holders

Free weekend travel on all routes

When you buy a monthly or longer Season Ticket or Travelcard Season Ticket, valid from a Chiltern Railways station and worth £150 or more a month or £1,500 or more a year, you get FREE weekend travel across our entire network (except for the Bicester Village Shuttle Bus). You must buy your ticket from Chiltern Railways to receive this benefit. If your Season Ticket is on an Oyster card you must also have your paper record card to travel free at weekends.

 

[Muzer]

Ah, nice.

 

[Starmill]

I expect you'll get a refund, an apology plus one of those passes giving you two days unlimited travel on Northern - which I notionally value at £30 per day.

That's very subjective. I can get considerably more than that out of them per day in terms of forfeited fares to Northern... But I actually value them at almost nothing because I have no need of any of the travel they offer, I already have 3 and in the past 2 years I've used 5.

So I agree they're great if you're an enthusiast who lives near a Northern service, there's a limit to how great they can get. And also to the majority of normal people they're useless. Perhaps if you live in York and want to go for a day out in Blackpool...

 

[northwichcat]

That's very subjective. I can get considerably more than that out of them per day in terms of forfeited fares to Northern... But I actually value them at almost nothing because I have no need of any of the travel they offer, I already have 3 and in the past 2 years I've used 5.

So I agree they're great if you're an enthusiast who lives near a Northern service, there's a limit to how great they can get. And also to the majority of normal people they're useless. Perhaps if you live in York and want to go for a day out in Blackpool...

I kind of agree.

If I need to make an off-peak day return journey from Knutsford to Huddersfield then the Northern Day ticket can only save me £1.90 if I stick to the fastest route. If I need to make the journey I may not have time to deviate off the fastest route so the fact that Northern run an hourly stopping service between Manchester and Huddersfield is irrelevant.

Northern may promote their Day Rangers for £10 as a limited time special offer but they've never sold one for more than that you can't say the RRP is anything more than £10.