Northern units in the north east?

[PA28]

Hi I'm new to this forum so apologies if I have posted in the wrong place. Im soon starting for Northern as trainer driver at Darlington. Could anyone tell me the type of train I may be driving from there? Thanks for any info!

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Hi I'm new to this forum so apologies if I have posted in the wrong place. Im soon starting for Northern as trainer driver at Darlington. Could anyone tell me the type of train I may be driving from there? Thanks for any info!

I suspect it is the wrong place, but never mind that...!

Not entirely sure what Darlington signs, but I would suspect pacers, 150s/153/156

 

[507021]

I suspect it is the wrong place, but never mind that...!

Not entirely sure what Darlington signs, but I would suspect pacers, 150s/153/156

150s and 153s don't operate in the North East.

It'll be 142s and 156s.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

150s and 153s don't operate in the North East.

It'll be 142s and 156s.

I beg to differ - On a recent trip there, undertaken whilst I was delightfully blocked from posting here by a tech malfunction, I did a trip on both a 150 and 153 to Darlington

 

[simon7929]

Possibly 158s in the future. Routes include BIA-DAR-SLB, MBR-WTB, MBR-NCL via the coast and DAR-NCL via DHM.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I beg to differ - On a recent trip there, undertaken whilst I was delightfully blocked from posting here by a tech malfunction, I did a trip on both a 150 and 153 to Darlington

Don't think you did. Worked in the NE for 26 years and 150s have never worked to Darlington in that time. The 153s were regulars up here until around 2003/4 time.

 

[507021]

I beg to differ - On a recent trip there, undertaken whilst I was delightfully blocked from posting here by a tech malfunction, I did a trip on both a 150 and 153 to Darlington

Well that's news to me, because I've never seen a Class 150 or Class 153 when I've been in the North East.

 

[Geeves]

As has been said Darlington, Middlesbrough and Newcastle depots dont currently sign 150s or 153s and if a 150 or 153 needs to go to Heaton it is driven there by a York man and would then be route conducted from Newcastle Central to the depot. Infact York might well well sign all the way to the depot to be honest but what ever it was you rode up there is definitely wasn't the latter.

Anyways 158 752 spent all day parked at Newton Heath today. Nice easy day for it!

 

[simon7929]

York men don't sign Heaton. They accompany the NCL man to the depot if the traction is not a 142/156. This happens on a night occasionally when foreign units arrive for attention via 5A60.

 

[PA28]

Thanks guys I appreciate the info

 

[Max]

MOD NOTE - I have moved this little 'sub-thread' out into a home of its own.

 

[DarloRich]

142/156's

We had 153's many moons ago. We also had 158's and may get them back in the near future. Apart form the 950 i cant say I have ever seen a 150 at Darlington

I beg to differ - On a recent trip there, undertaken whilst I was delightfully blocked from posting here by a tech malfunction, I did a trip on both a 150 and 153 to Darlington

Are you sure? where did you travel to and from? This seems like a tall tale.

 

[simon7929]

142/156's

We had 153's many moons ago. We also had 158's and may get them back in the near future. Apart form the 950 i cant say I have ever seen a 150 at Darlington



Are you sure? where did you travel to and from? This seems like a tall tale.

No Northern crews North
of York sign them. I've seen the odd one work to MBR from YRK during Northern Spirit days back in 2000/1. However that was as far as they got. The service was operated by a York crew when part of TPE.

 

[DarloRich]

No Northern crews North
of York sign them. I've seen the odd one work to MBR from YRK during Northern Spirit days back in 2000/1. However that was as far as they got. The service was operated by a York crew when part of TPE.

158's or 150's?

 

[96tommy]

I beg to differ - On a recent trip there, undertaken whilst I was delightfully blocked from posting here by a tech malfunction, I did a trip on both a 150 and 153 to Darlington

Definitely did not happen, sure it wasn't a 156?

As previous posters have said Darlo is 142 and 156's

 

[simon7929]

158's or 150's?

Both. In them days we were short of units. 158s would carry on to Newcastle as they were signed by NE crews in them days.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Darlington drivers and Middlesbrough conductors signed 144s between 1998 and 2004. Saw one go to Newcastle via the coast one morning on a service train. The last train from Whitby to Middlesbrough (SO) was extended to Darlington at one point during the above period. This was booked for a 144. The only time you could get a 144 on a booked service between MBR and DAR. Think it only ran for one summer timetable change only.

 

[DarloRich]

I have seen the odd 144 in Darlo over the years in the past but certainly never a 150.

 

[1179_Clee2]

Possibly 158s in the future. Routes include BIA-DAR-SLB, MBR-WTB, MBR-NCL via the coast and DAR-NCL via DHM.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Don't think you did. Worked in the NE for 26 years and 150s have never worked to Darlington in that time. The 153s were regulars up here until around 2003/4 time.

The BIG question is when Northern get rid of the its 102 pacer DMU's, what units are going to be allocated to what depot.
As this thread is talking about Northern in the the NE lets look at Heaton depot.
Heaton will be loose 37 Class 142 pacer's and replace with ?
Class 158's for Northern Connect services, how many are needed and which ones do you send ? Northern will have the following 2 car trains some of which are going to be made into 3 car trains if its plans stay the same.
13 Class 158's with Cummings 350hp engines
16 Class 158's with Perkins 350hp engines
6 Class 158's with Cummings 400hp engines
What makes up the rest ? Class 156 from Allerton when it gets more EMU's ?

 

[47802]

Isn't the north east supposed to be getting a mixture of 150's and 158's. There will presumably be quite a lot of 158's being displaced from current operations by 195's eg Leeds-Sheffield-Nottingham, Calder Valley 195+170's, and 8 x 158's to come from Scotland

 

[sprinterguy]

What makes up the rest ? Class 156 from Allerton when it gets more EMU's ?

I'd certainly expect to see a mix of 156s and 158s at Heaton:

• Around half of Heaton's 142 diagrams are actually in Yorkshire, so it's possible that their replacements will be sourced from new stock or cascaded stock displaced by the new trains. That leaves around 18/19 Pacers to replace which are specifically used on North East diagrams.

• There's ten Angel Trains owned, former RRNE, class 156s at Allerton which could join the remainder of Northern's Angel Trains owned 156s at Heaton, assuming that they're not needed elsewhere on the West side.

• Including turnaround times, I suppose the hourly Newcastle - Carlisle "Connect" service will require around 4 or 5 class 158s (The Middlesbrough - Newcastle "Connect" service can't really be factored into equations of stock being replaced as it is a new service).

• That still leaves a shortfall of four or five units, and the class 158s needed for the Middlesbrough - Newcastle "Connect" service: I would think that around ten additional class 158s (158s covering a few non-"Connect" services) would cover both of those comfortably.

So all of the 156s that Northern lease from Angel Trains and around sixteen class 158s, allowing for a couple of maintenance spares in the latter fleet, should be sufficient?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Isn't the north east supposed to be getting a mixture of 150's and 158's.

They'll have to work around the restriction that currently see class 150s banned; and the class 950 departmental unit limited to 40mph, suggesting a physical limitation rather than a paper one; from a specific section of the Durham Coast route between Boldon Colliery and St Peters before 150s could be introduced to the North East.

Otherwise I would agree that a mix of class 158 long distance units and class 150 commuter units (hopefully in pairs!) would be ideal.

 

[1179_Clee2]

I'd certainly expect to see a mix of 156s and 158s at Heaton:

• Around half of Heaton's 142 diagrams are actually in Yorkshire, so it's possible that their replacements will be sourced from new stock or cascaded stock displaced by the new trains. That leaves around 18/19 Pacers to replace which are specifically used on North East diagrams.

• There's ten Angel Trains owned, former RRNE, class 156s at Allerton which could join the remainder of Northern's Angel Trains owned 156s at Heaton, assuming that they're not needed elsewhere on the West side.

• Including turnaround times, I suppose the hourly Newcastle - Carlisle "Connect" service will require around 4 or 5 class 158s (The Middlesbrough - Newcastle "Connect" service can't really be factored into equations of stock being replaced as it is a new service).

• That still leaves a shortfall of four or five units, and the class 158s needed for the Middlesbrough - Newcastle "Connect" service: I would think that around ten additional class 158s (158s covering a few non-"Connect" services) would cover both of those comfortably.

So all of the 156s that Northern lease from Angel Trains and around sixteen class 158s, allowing for a couple of maintenance spares in the latter fleet, should be sufficient?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They'll have to work around the restriction that currently see class 150s banned; and the class 950 departmental unit limited to 40mph, suggesting a physical limitation rather than a paper one; from a specific section of the Durham Coast route between Boldon Colliery and St Peters before 150s could be introduced to the North East.

Otherwise I would agree that a mix of class 158 long distance units and class 150 commuter units (hopefully in pairs!) would be ideal.

So basically 37 Class 142 pacers to replace.
10 Class 156 Angel owned from Allerton
5 Class 156 Angel owned from Scotrail
16 Class 158 Perkins 350hp engines
6 Class 158 Cummings 400hp engines
TOTAL 37

 

[47802]

I'd certainly expect to see a mix of 156s and 158s at Heaton:

• Around half of Heaton's 142 diagrams are actually in Yorkshire, so it's possible that their replacements will be sourced from new stock or cascaded stock displaced by the new trains. That leaves around 18/19 Pacers to replace which are specifically used on North East diagrams.

• There's ten Angel Trains owned, former RRNE, class 156s at Allerton which could join the remainder of Northern's Angel Trains owned 156s at Heaton, assuming that they're not needed elsewhere on the West side.

• Including turnaround times, I suppose the hourly Newcastle - Carlisle "Connect" service will require around 4 or 5 class 158s (The Middlesbrough - Newcastle "Connect" service can't really be factored into equations of stock being replaced as it is a new service).

• That still leaves a shortfall of four or five units, and the class 158s needed for the Middlesbrough - Newcastle "Connect" service: I would think that around ten additional class 158s (158s covering a few non-"Connect" services) would cover both of those comfortably.

So all of the 156s that Northern lease from Angel Trains and around sixteen class 158s, allowing for a couple of maintenance spares in the latter fleet, should be sufficient?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They'll have to work around the restriction that currently see class 150s banned; and the class 950 departmental unit limited to 40mph, suggesting a physical limitation rather than a paper one; from a specific section of the Durham Coast route between Boldon Colliery and St Peters before 150s could be introduced to the North East.

Otherwise I would agree that a mix of class 158 long distance units and class 150 commuter units (hopefully in pairs!) would be ideal.

Well unless they make the Durham coast purely 158, 156+158 would perhaps make more sense for the North East, with 150's concentrated on short stoppers in Yorkshire and Lancashire. But the initial indications seemed to suggest 150's but as ever we will have to wait and see.

I'm presuming the Cumbrian coast will remain 156 and if so will clearly need more units to add capacity and replace the 37's

 

[Paul Duck]

I'm sure the Connect service in the North East goes Middlesbrough-Newcastle-Carlisle (If they ever decide which way it gets to Newcastle).
Very interesting to which units we get in the North East, like the sound of 156's & 158's.

 

[Tetchytyke]

But the initial indications seemed to suggest 150's but as ever we will have to wait and see.

I think the 150s would be perfectly fine for the Saltburn-Darlington-Bish and the stoppers to Hexham and down the Durham Coast. Sticking a 156 or even a 158 on those trains would be a total waste of resources. I know the 150s are a bit rubbish but they're ideal for the Tees Valley local trains in terms of capacity and layout.

 

[markydh]

There won't be any stoppers to Hexham. They will all extend to Carlisle. I think they will remain 156s, purely for the fact that quite a few of the Cumbrian Coast diagrams are Heaton-based 156s and I can't see that changing.

 

[sprinterguy]

There won't be any stoppers to Hexham. They will all extend to Carlisle.

Well they'll still be stoppers to Hexham, presumably, they'll just extend a bit further than at present after that.

I think they will remain 156s, purely for the fact that quite a few of the Cumbrian Coast diagrams are Heaton-based 156s and I can't see that changing.

I always forget that the Cumbrian Coast went over to being served by units from Heaton some time ago: In my head it's still a North West area route. In which case, the five class 156s which I think have been confirmed as moving from Scotrail to Northern would prove useful at Heaton in order to replace the class 37 hauled rakes as per 47802's thinking.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm sure the Connect service in the North East goes Middlesbrough-Newcastle-Carlisle (If they ever decide which way it gets to Newcastle).

I can't recall whether it's been confirmed as a single through service, but either way the Middlesbrough - Newcastle leg constitutes a new service and any stock used on it can't therefore be counted in the total utilised to replace the current Pacers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think the 150s would be perfectly fine for the Saltburn-Darlington-Bish and the stoppers to Hexham and down the Durham Coast. Sticking a 156 or even a 158 on those trains would be a total waste of resources.

I'm not sure what sort of rural backwater you think the Durham Coast is (), but I can't see how a class 156, a type of unit already regularly seen on the route, could be considered "a total waste of resources". There's currently the demand to fill the number of seats a 2-car class 156 or 158 unit offers, or more at peak times and allowing for future growth, and journeys such as Middlesbrough - Sunderland or Hartlepool - Newcastle aren't terribly short.

I can't really see why Durham Coast or Tyne Valley passengers should be bereft of air-conditioned trains either (I appreciate that the Northern Connect services will have them), when even such remote areas as the Far North line can afford to enjoy (debateable, based on comments on the current thread on that line!) similar.

In terms of meeting commuter demand on relatively short stop-to-stop journeys though, I do appreciate that 150s probably are more suitable on Tees or Tyne Valley stoppers (less so once the Tyne Valley services extend all the way to Carlisle) than narrow entrance 156s or 158 units, though.

 

[glbotu]

There won't be any stoppers to Hexham. They will all extend to Carlisle. I think they will remain 156s, purely for the fact that quite a few of the Cumbrian Coast diagrams are Heaton-based 156s and I can't see that changing.

Really? So is it going to be 3tph Newcastle - Carlisle? (1 Connect, 2 Normal) Or are they shafting everyone in Prudhoe with only 1tph, down from the current 2tph.

 

[lejog]

Really? So is it going to be 3tph Newcastle - Carlisle? (1 Connect, 2 Normal) Or are they shafting everyone in Prudhoe with only 1tph, down from the current 2tph.

Open this document, look at the bottom of page 1 and you will see the weekday service Prudhoe (and all the other stations on the line) is to get.

 

[markydh]

No, no. At present there's two trains an hour to Hexham, one of which extends to Carlisle. The plan is to extend the Hexham terminator to Carlisle. The Northern Connect service replaces the current Carlisle terminator and will call at Metrocentre, Prudhoe, Hexham and Carlisle.