Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[Harvey B]

Which I just happened to snap a pic of in Preston today.(135)View attachment 63792

Dumb question but are the original colours light and dark purple or they purple and dark blue? Because I've always looked at the past franchises colours as Purple and Dark Blue

 

[323 Class]

Dumb question but are the original colours light and dark purple or they purple and dark blue? Because I've always looked at the past franchises colours as Purple and Dark Blue

I'd say the latter.

 

[Harvey B]

I'd say the latter.

I'd say the latter too

 

[anamyd]

The 319s were the two shades of purple weren't they...? ("Northern Electrics")

 

[jonesy3001]

The 319s were the two shades of purple weren't they...? ("Northern Electrics")

yep like 372/373 and 446 are now but with purple doors and;

319362 (4) by Jonesy3001, on Flickr

 

[Dan15812]

Karim Aregbe

Joshua Free



Sorry if this question has probably been answered but why are theses refurbished northern 158's different?
Is because they are owned by different train leasing companies?

 

[323 Class]

This is 158904 which I travelled on Blackpool-Hebden Bridge.
It a combo of the two above.
I cant answer your question either.

 

[jonesy3001]

Anyone know what this was, disappeared after hare park junction and it's a freightliner movement not the usual ROG movement.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00131/2019/05/31/advanced

 

[AMD]

Sorry if this question has probably been answered but why are theses refurbished northern 158's different?

The unit with the plain navy blue seats is the original seats recovered, it'll probably be one of the first units to be refurbed such as 158752, before the seat pattern and the new seat design were finalised/ put into production. The other unit has the new design seat with the final seat pattern, albeit in flat cloth which will eventually (could be a while...) be changed to moquette fabric. The carpet design also changed from first spec to something that will hide the dirt better.
Also the passenger information system is different - the first refurb has blue screens which are now being changed to the standard TrainFX yellow scrolling display.

 

[AMD]

Before someone asks why all the changes, basically when 158752 rolled out management had a look at it and were somewhat underwhelmed by the refurb, albeit it was known that the seat design was to change.

 

[323 Class]

Are the LED PIS screens from a previous TOC as opposed to the new LCD type?

 

[anamyd]

Are the LED PIS screens from a previous TOC as opposed to the new LCD type?

I believe the LED ones are the current Northern standard fitment

 

[Harvey B]

Apologies if I've asked this before but will the 3 car 158s eventually get the 'ironing board' seats?

 

[sd0733]

1 coach of 158905 sat outside at Crewe fully repainted and branded in the new livery

 

[jonesy3001]

Anyone know what this was, disappeared after hare park junction and it's a freightliner movement not the usual ROG movement.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00131/2019/05/31/advanced

Was supposed to be 150121 and 150114 but was cancelled.

 

[PomWombat]

I spent 3 hours yesterday stuck outside Leeds on one of the 150s that was refurbed with moquette. Nice, bright & clean ... but then, I haven't really seen the flat cloth in a bad state. And a decent PRM loo.

It certainly could have been a worse experience...

 

[Neptune]

Also the passenger information system is different - the first refurb has blue screens which are now being changed to the standard TrainFX yellow scrolling display.

The Porterbrook/Eversholt owned 158’s have received the awful blue/yellow screens whilst the Angel owned 158’s and all other units have received the simple scrolling screen. No idea why. No plans to replace the blue/yellow screens which I believe the 195/331 fleet have.

 

[Mollman]

Apologies if I've asked this before but will the 3 car 158s eventually get the 'ironing board' seats?

I think that's the plan.

 

[BigCj34]

I spent 3 hours yesterday stuck outside Leeds on one of the 150s that was refurbed with moquette. Nice, bright & clean ... but then, I haven't really seen the flat cloth in a bad state. And a decent PRM loo.

It certainly could have been a worse experience...

I have been on a returned 150 that looked worse for wear. Floor not clean, stained upholstery, seat frames not cleaned and toilet blocked and flooded. It doesn't matter how many refurbishments a set gets if they're simply not maintained.

There are some technical limitations of 80's stock that won't be resolved such as the noise and lack of aircon and the hopper windows will always look old, but maintaining goes a long way.

Will Northern get fined if they are still running the Pacers as that is breaching the contract, even if they're PRM modified (which can even mean disabling/removing the toilet)?

 

[JModulo]

I have been on a returned 150 that looked worse for wear. Floor not clean, stained upholstery, seat frames not cleaned and toilet blocked and flooded. It doesn't matter how many refurbishments a set gets if they're simply not maintained.

Not really Northern's fault though if the toilet gets blocked.

 

[Harvey B]

Will Northern get fined if they are still running the Pacers as that is breaching the contract, even if they're PRM modified (which can even mean disabling/removing the toilet)?

They probably would be fined if Pacers stay and if the PRM mods don't start speeding up and If the 331s and 195s don't enter service soon then it seems likely that Pacers will stay past the December 31st deadline (depending on when Northern start phasing out Pacers)
Although, with some of the 185s going off lease fairly shortly couldn't Northern just lease some of them short term while the CAF stock enter service and so the Pacers can actually be retired and so Northern can complete the PRM mods on their existing fleet.

 

[43096]

They probably would be fined if Pacets stay and if the PRM mods don't start speeding up and If the 331s and 195s don't enter service soon then it seems likely that Pacers will stay past the December 31st deadline (depending on when Northern start phasing out Pacers)
Although, with some of the 185s going off lease fairly shortly couldn't Northern just lease some of them short term while the CAF stock enter service and so the Pacers can actually be retired and so Northern can complete the PRM mods on their existing fleet.

185s can’t be released until TPE get their new stock, a sizeable chunk of which are from CAF.

 

[Harvey B]

185s can’t be released until TPE get their new stock, a sizeable chunk of which are from CAF.

Even then the ones that are leaving will be released from TPE by December. If the PRM mods aren't done by December then Northern will have 2 options:
1) Risk running un-modded stock and being fined
b. include Pacers with that as-well
2) temporarily lease some trains that have already been PRM modded (e.g. Class 185s) until Northern have their fleet back to normal again

 

[59CosG95]

Even then the ones that are leaving will be released from TPE by December. If the PRM mods aren't done by December then Northern will have 2 options:
1) Risk running un-modded stock and being fined
b. include Pacers with that as-well
2) temporarily lease some trains that have already been PRM modded (e.g. Class 185s) until Northern have their fleet back to normal again

I think you might have confused "will be leaving" with "are due to be leaving".

 

[Harvey B]

I think you might have confused "will be leaving" with "are due to be leaving".

what do you mean?

 

[59CosG95]

what do you mean?

December 2019 is the date by which the 397s, Mk5As and 802/2s are all meant to be in service. As a direct result of that, and assuming there are no farces that put the new stock out of service, the 22 185s will go off lease as you said.
What I'm trying to say is that there's no guarantee that things get any smoother from here, and the off lease date for the 185s could be pushed back.

 

[Harvey B]

December 2019 is the date by which the 397s, Mk5As and 802/2s are all meant to be in service. As a direct result of that, and assuming there are no farces that put the new stock out of service, the 22 185s will go off lease as you said.
What I'm trying to say is that there's no guarantee that things get any smoother from here, and the off lease date for the 185s could be pushed back.

My assumptions were based on TPE stock being in service before December (which I thought was the plan) and that's one reason why I used December and the other reason is because the PRM deadline is in December and at this rate I think Northern could be operating trains that don't yet have PRM mods (maybe including Pacers). Either way Northern need to have a plan in place so they can make sure they have lease some trains temporarily to allow their main fleet to go for PRM mods.
(to be honest I should have read the 'new TPE stock introduction thread' before assuming that they would be in service before December)

 

[anamyd]

trains that have already been PRM modded (e.g. Class 185s)

technically 185s aren't PRM modded; they were built to be RVAR compliant from new and therefore are accepted to be PRM-TSI compliant, same with 168/170*/171/172/175/180/195, 220/221/222, 331/332/333/345/350/357/360/375/376/377/378/379/380/385/387/390/395/399, 444/450, 710/745/755, 800/801/802, and Mk5/Mk5A (230s and 769s omitted)

*just some very small changes to some subclasses

Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations
Persons with Reduced Mobility - Technical Specifications for Interoperability

 

[Harvey B]

technically 185s aren't PRM modded; they were built to be RVAR compliant from new and therefore are accepted to be PRM-TSI compliant, same with 168/170*/171/172/175/180/195, 220/221/222, 345/350/357/360/375/376/377/378/379/380/385/387/390/395/399, 444/450, 710/745/755, 800/801/802, and Mk5/Mk5A (230s and 769s omitted)

*just some very small changes to some subclasses

Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations
Persons with Reduced Mobility - Technical Specifications for Interoperability

I assume the same principal is for the 333s

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Would someone be kind enough to make us a list please? I find them quite helpful.

If not, may someone at least tell me the current status on the refurbishments and I’ll make it?