Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[D2007wsm]

I quite like that refurbishment of 150102. It is a world away from the state they were allowed to get in to with GWR! Yes 3+2 seating is not ideal but the seat backs on these seats are fairly comfortable and perfectly fine for local based commuter journeys.

Most of them were repainted internally and all had the seats covered in First moquette. I can see why First didn't spend to much money on them when they knew they were going. GWR got there priorities right in investing in the fleet which will be staying. The 150/2s are much better than these and Northern should follow GWRs example with there 150/2s.

It does look OK, but still looks very stark with a lot of white and the exposed lighting tubes don't help. They need diffusers fitting.

No matter what is done to these, it's like polishing a turd.

 

[Parallel]

Most of them were repainted internally and all had the seats covered in First moquette. I can see why First didn't spend to much money on them when they knew they were going. GWR got there priorities right in investing in the fleet which will be staying. The 150/2s are much better than these and Northern should follow GWRs example with there 150/2s.

It does look OK, but still looks very stark with a lot of white and the exposed lighting tubes don't help. They need diffusers fitting.

No matter what is done to these, it's like polishing a turd.

One thing that helps with this type of lighting (I have seen on 150001 and 150002) is inserting the tubes upside down so the LEDs are facing the roof - this gives less glare and a better ambience within the carriage.

 

[cactustwirly]

They've decided to waste money replacing perfectly good seats on 158's and 156's instead.

I wouldn't call the seats in the Heaton based 156s 'perfectly good'

 

[BurtonM]

These new interiors are way too stark, cold and clinical for my liking.

 

[yorksrob]

I wouldn't call the seats in the Heaton based 156s 'perfectly good'

The ones we get in the North West and in Cumbria are.

 

[boeing737229]

These new interiors are way too stark, cold and clinical for my liking.

I couldn't agree more! When I went on a refurbed 150/1 at night I felt like I might have a Migraine from the harsh lighting!

 

[northwichcat]

The ones we get in the North West and in Cumbria are.

The ex-FNW 156s are OK, the ex-ATN 156s aren't designed for passengers who have legs or necks.

 

[yorksrob]

The ex-FNW 156s are OK, the ex-ATN 156s aren't designed for passengers who have legs or necks.

I'm not sure which ones are which, however the ones in the North West seem to have modern, fairly substantial seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure which ones are which, however the ones in the North West seem to have modern, fairly substantial seats.

There are two types, the ones with the good quality Chapman seating which hasn't collapsed (the ex-FNW "North West Express" sets, identifiable by having a rounded seat back with a handle across the top), and the in theory nicer[1] but awful quality Richmond seating where the bases have near enough all collapsed (the ex-RRNE sets, identifiable by having a squarer seat back and a smaller handle). You'd know if you sat on the latter, they are quite possibly the worst seat on the network. Yes, including Class 700s and Merseyrail Pacers. I'd genuinely rather sit on the floor.

[1] If the refurbs have installed completely new bases those ones may actually be nicer.

 

[stu99]

These are not my photos but...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/39918537@N04/15605916010/ (chapman)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/deltrems/26385575009/ (Richmond)

 

[xotGD]

These are not my photos but...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/39918537@N04/15605916010/ (chapman)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/deltrems/26385575009/ (Richmond)

They look virtually identical to me!

Am I in a minority of one?

 

[stu99]

I think if they resigned the back cushion of the richmond seat and take the lump out of the back, which is obviously designed for average height, I think they would be ok, It looks like scotrail have done that to their refurbished haymarket batch of richmond seated 158s...more leg room for the taller people would be needed as well

 

[northwichcat]

They look virtually identical to me!

Am I in a minority of one?

Sit on them and you'll notice the different.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I'm not sure which ones are which, however the ones in the North West seem to have modern, fairly substantial seats.

The FNW units have the Chapman seats aka the nicer ones and the ATN/RRNE units have the Richmond seats aka the crap ones. @Bletchleyite explains it in-depth in his post.

 

[northwichcat]

The FNW units have the Chapman seats aka the nicer ones and the ATN/RRNE units have the Richmond seats aka the crap ones. @Bletchleyite explains it in-depth in his post.

It's actually the difference in 156 seating being discussed following the news one of the ex-FNW 156s has had it's seating replaced.

 

[507021]

They look virtually identical to me!

Am I in a minority of one?

The difference is Chapman seats have a grab handle on the top of the seat, the higher backed Richmond seats don't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The difference is Chapman seats have a grab handle on the top of the seat, the higher backed Richmond seats don't.

And that they are the opposite way round in terms of comfort than they look, which is because the Richmond bases are of poor quality and have mostly collapsed. Brand new they were nice enough.

 

[D2007wsm]

Are the bases of Richmond seats different between operators, or is it due to lack of being replaced.

I've never travelled on a GWR 153 or 158 with a collapsed base, that falls to the Ashbournes on the 150/1s or 158s with original seats.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are the bases of Richmond seats different between operators, or is it due to lack of being replaced.

This, I suspect. The ones in all the Northern units are in awful condition. They just fitted new covers and hoped we didn't notice. Trouble is, my backside and lower back definitely did notice.

A bit OT, but GWR have replaced the base and back foams on the original seats on some refurbed 158s (with a thicker base which means you're no longer sat on the floor) and they are VERY comfortable.

 

[Parallel]

Are the bases of Richmond seats different between operators, or is it due to lack of being replaced.

I've never travelled on a GWR 153 or 158 with a collapsed base, that falls to the Ashbournes on the 150/1s or 158s with original seats.

The Richmond seats seem to have a problem of the cushion coming off - and you wouldn’t obviously know until you nearly slide onto the floor! Richmond seats used to be worse when the lower seat cushion was flatter, but new ones have been fitted that are taller which makes them slightly more comfortable than before.

 

[pdq]

Can't tell you what seat is what, but those on the 144s don't seem too bad, leg room excepted.
On 158s it does seem a mixed bag. These seem to be the worst to me - either totally worn out, loose and zero padding, or with new cushions that are too deep and render the armrests useless.

 

[SteveyBee131]

Can't tell you what seat is what, but those on the 144s don't seem too bad, leg room excepted.

The 144s have Richmond seats. Likewise, I find them comfortable. Unless I end up in the seat with the fan-heater in the foot well...

 

[BurtonM]

Took this on my way home, annoyingly it's come out blurred, I didn't realise.



It's a 150/1 and /2 that both seem to be ex-LM based on the fact neither had a proper cycle space.
Comapre and contrast:
Both have had repaints, PIS, and interior repanelling, but one has the new moquette and one has the previous franchise's, the former has cool white lighting and the latter has warm white.

IMO, the old Northern moquette is better - less fussy, and a better colour match for both the exterior of the train and the darker parts of the interior panelling, considering they're all basically the same shade. It looks neat and with the warm white lighting the appliance white interior is barely passable, but it's already not holding up that well.

The new moquette is a fussy pattern, feels cheap and nasty, will stain easily being a light colour, and doesn't hide dirt as well. I'm suspicious that it's going to wear out with use too, unlike the old fuzzy moquette type (even Southern 455s with their beach towel covers are better than this new stuff!).
The cool white lighting is stark, unpleasant, clinical, and will show up the cheap interiors for all they are.

 

[Bantamzen]

Took this on my way home, annoyingly it's come out blurred, I didn't realise.



It's a 150/1 and /2 that both seem to be ex-LM based on the fact neither had a proper cycle space.
Comapre and contrast:
Both have had repaints, PIS, and interior repanelling, but one has the new moquette and one has the previous franchise's, the former has cool white lighting and the latter has warm white.

IMO, the old Northern moquette is better - less fussy, and a better colour match for both the exterior of the train and the darker parts of the interior panelling, considering they're all basically the same shade. It looks neat and with the warm white lighting the appliance white interior is barely passable, but it's already not holding up that well.

The new moquette is a fussy pattern, feels cheap and nasty, will stain easily being a light colour, and doesn't hide dirt as well. I'm suspicious that it's going to wear out with use too, unlike the old fuzzy moquette type (even Southern 455s with their beach towel covers are better than this new stuff!).
The cool white lighting is stark, unpleasant, clinical, and will show up the cheap interiors for all they are.

I'm not sure I agree, the newer refurbishment looks to me more complete than the earlier one which for me has the feel of only a partial refurbishment. But it's all subjective, no company anywhere on the planet is ever going to satisfy every single passenger, it's just human nature. Some will like the design & others won't. And to be honest I'm not sure Northern should be spending vast amounts of money on units that will be next in line for retirement once the current round of cascades, new orders and withdrawals has completed. Just as long as they are in a better state than some units running around at the moment, that will be an improvement.

 

[capital12]

I’ve got to admit to being a little bemused by the Northern refurb process, originally I was hoping it would bring a bit of standardisation to the interiors but it was clear early on that wasn’t going to happen!

But even with the low cost, low standards, refurb they’ve settled on it seems every train is slightly different to last!

For example on 156s, until now they have come back with yellow seat handles and still with carpet, but the one I caught the other day with the new seat coverings had dark blue handles and they’ve changed the carpet to lino?!

It’s like no one knows what they’re doing!

 

[59CosG95]

Keeping heads on to an extent; 150130 & 150131 transferred north (as 5Z50) from St. Phillip's Marsh to Newton Heath today, thus ending the dynasty of 150/1s south of Bletchley.

 

[jonesy3001]

Keeping heads on to an extent; 150130 & 150131 transferred north (as 5Z50) from St. Phillip's Marsh to Newton Heath today, thus ending the dynasty of 150/1s south of Bletchley.

still got 125(925) and 126(926)down there, depending if they're moving up with the centre cars.

 

[59CosG95]

still got 125(925) and 126(926)down there, depending if they're moving up with the centre cars.

Oops, my bad - I had forgotten about those 2. It does indeed depend on whether or not they do move up.

 

[D2007wsm]

Keeping heads on to an extent; 150130 & 150131 transferred north (as 5Z50) from St. Phillip's Marsh to Newton Heath today, thus ending the dynasty of 150/1s south of Bletchley.

Hooray! Glad to see the back of the horrible things

 

[387star]

All Northern had to do was refurbish like SWT managed with their brilliant 455 refurbishment

Of course the latter TOC runs through one of the most expensive counties in England

I’ve got to admit to being a little bemused by the Northern refurb process, originally I was hoping it would bring a bit of standardisation to the interiors but it was clear early on that wasn’t going to happen!

But even with the low cost, low standards, refurb they’ve settled on it seems every train is slightly different to last!

For example on 156s, until now they have come back with yellow seat handles and still with carpet, but the one I caught the other day with the new seat coverings had dark blue handles and they’ve changed the carpet to lino?!

It’s like no one knows what they’re doing!

Exactly