Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[D2007wsm]

At the moment there aren't enough Chapman seats to allow all the 150s to have them, so I imagine that one will miss out unless they get some more (e.g. by ATW withdrawing their Pacers.)

GWR has 143s fitted with Chapman seats as do a couple of 153s. Could the Chapmans from these 153s be swapped with some Richmond's from 156s to match the rest of the 153s and free some Chapman's up?

Also, when FGW refurbished the 158s, those that were retained with Chapman seats were reseated with Richmond's, leaving 158/9s with a mixture of Richmond's and original 158 seats in the same train. What happened to the Chapman's which were stripped out and with the ATW 158s that had Chapman's swapped for Grammars?

 

[brel york]

GWR has 143s fitted with Chapman seats as do a couple of 153s. Could the Chapmans from these 153s be swapped with some Richmond's from 156s to match the rest of the 153s and free some Chapman's up?

Also, when FGW refurbished the 158s, those that were retained with Chapman seats were reseated with Richmond's, leaving 158/9s with a mixture of Richmond's and original 158 seats in the same train. What happened to the Chapman's which were stripped out and with the ATW 158s that had Chapman's swapped for Grammars?

Fitting chapmans in place of Ashbourne is going to be expensive , Doncaster are replacing the flooring and Lino on all angels 150s , the Lino would need to be stripped out as the seat peds and seating configuration will not match so all the seat t bolts will need moving , angel won’t pay as they have just paid for the new flooring

 

[brel york]

Fitting chapmans in place of Ashbourne is going to be expensive , Doncaster are replacing the flooring and Lino on all angels 150s , the Lino would need to be stripped out as the seat peds and seating configuration will not match so all the seat t bolts will need moving , angel won’t pay as they have just paid for the new flooring

Plus the underseat heaters and control units are different on the ex fnw units so the underseat heater boxing in will not fit around the chapman frames so a redesign will be needed

 

[northwichcat]

8 of the /2s will need their toilets removing altogether when they become centre cars and there's a claim Angel are evaluating whether the redundant cabs should be removed, so if they will probably need work on the flooring afterwards.

There are a few different Chapman seating arrangements on the ex-FNW 150s - fortunately the arrangement which doesn't have any more leg room than a Merseyrail 142 didn't get put into more than 1 or 2 sets.

 

[brel york]

8 of the /2s will need their toilets removing altogether when they become centre cars and there's a claim Angel are evaluating whether the redundant cabs should be removed, so if they will probably need work on the flooring afterwards.

There are a few different Chapman seating arrangements on the ex-FNW 150s - fortunately the arrangement which doesn't have any more leg room than a Merseyrail 142 didn't get put into more than 1 or 2 sets.

I can’t imagine angel paying nearly £35000 for a prm toilet then taking it out and scrapping it , what happens then , a full size boreus window put in , where is that coming from , a new one would be well over £1200 , the cost of making it into a 57 car would be expensive once you introduce the engineering costs on top of the material costs the otmr would need moving yet again and what happens with the roof hatch , toilet tank and low roof area .

 

[Halish Railway]

How many Pacers are there with ATW & GWR that have Chapman seats and will be withdrawn post-2020.

 

[brel york]

I would hope the there long gone by 2020

 

[brel york]

I would hope the there long gone by 2020

But they are going to ring every penny out of these

 

[D2007wsm]

How many Pacers are there with ATW & GWR that have Chapman seats and will be withdrawn post-2020.

Think GWR have 7 143s, which last time I went on one apart from being bouncy were in good nick and pleasent to ride on.

 

[superalbs]

Think GWR have 7 143s, which last time I went on one apart from being bouncy were in good nick and pleasent to ride on.

Eight.

 

[D2007wsm]

Eight.

Nearly right lol I very rarely see them anymore

 

[Halish Railway]

How pacers do Arriva Trains Wales have? Do all of theirs (142 & 143) have Chapman seats?

 

[DanNCL]

How pacers do Arriva Trains Wales have? Do all of theirs (142 & 143) have Chapman seats?

ATW have 15 142s and 15 143s, all of which have Chapman seats

 

[ash39]

How pacers do Arriva Trains Wales have? Do all of theirs (142 & 143) have Chapman seats?

15 of each, and yes from my observations they all seem to have the Chapman seats. Or at least not bus seats, my knowledge doesn't run as far as individual seat types!

They are generally a cleaner and much nicer fleet to travel on than the Northern ones.

 

[ash39]

ATW have 15 142s and 15 143s, all of which have Chapman seats

Beaten to it!

 

[Halish Railway]

Are Chapman seats still in production?

 

[DanNCL]

Are Chapman seats still in production?

I don't think they are; though I could be wrong

 

[Bletchleyite]

8 of the /2s will need their toilets removing altogether when they become centre cars and there's a claim Angel are evaluating whether the redundant cabs should be removed, so if they will probably need work on the flooring afterwards.

There are a few different Chapman seating arrangements on the ex-FNW 150s - fortunately the arrangement which doesn't have any more leg room than a Merseyrail 142 didn't get put into more than 1 or 2 sets.

There are far more than 1 or 2 sets.

The ex-FNW units all have, other than seats removed to fit the large bog, their original seating layout. So ALL the North West 150/2s have the unpleasant layout noted. The reason for this is the presence of underseat equipment boxes it wasn't feasible to move.

The 150/1s have the original all facing 150/1 layout except the bog bit.

Only those two I know of.

 

[brel york]

There are far more than 1 or 2 sets.

The ex-FNW units all have, other than seats removed to fit the large bog, their original seating layout. So ALL the North West 150/2s have the unpleasant layout noted. The reason for this is the presence of underseat equipment boxes it wasn't feasible to move.

The 150/1s have the original all facing 150/1 layout except the bog bit.

Only those two I know of.

The centre saloon spacing will be even tighter as seats are been moved in the 150/1 to achieve prm compliance,the priority seating doesn’t meet the required standard of 600mm between seats facing each other that are classed as priority, it doesn’t affect 150/2 as they have inward facing seats in the priority area and the requirements for the spacing there is a lot less than 600mm

 

[brel york]

The centre saloon spacing will be even tighter as seats are been moved in the 150/1 to achieve prm compliance,the priority seating doesn’t meet the required standard of 600mm between seats facing each other that are classed as priority, it doesn’t affect 150/2 as they have inward facing seats in the priority area and the requirements for the spacing there is a lot less than 600mm

The seats are not in production any more , shells are available but not the frames
New single seat frames are being produced for the uat area as it’s made up of doubles and bench seats , the shells of the four seat bench seat are reused on the new single frames

 

[northwichcat]

There are far more than 1 or 2 sets.

The ex-FNW units all have, other than seats removed to fit the large bog, their original seating layout. So ALL the North West 150/2s have the unpleasant layout noted. The reason for this is the presence of underseat equipment boxes it wasn't feasible to move.

The 150/1s have the original all facing 150/1 layout except the bog bit.

Only those two I know of.

There's at least one 150/1 which we get occasionally on the Mid-Cheshire line which is a former FNW unit but it doesn't have exactly the same seating layout as the other ex-FNW 150/1s. While none of the ex-FNW 150s have great leg room, that particular unit is even worse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's at least one 150/1 which we get occasionally on the Mid-Cheshire line which is a former FNW unit but it doesn't have exactly the same seating layout as the other ex-FNW 150/1s. While none of the ex-FNW 150s have great leg room, that particular unit is even worse.

What layout does it have? The only 2 layouts I have ever seen on the FNW units (and I travelled the area extensively in the 1990s) are the /1 layout (3 sets of bays per section, end section fully side facing) or the /2 layout (6 rows of airlines per section plus the stupid wasteful side facing seats, only part of the end section side facing).

Are you sure it's ex-FNW?

 

[brel york]

The 52 car in 150 144 has a unique layout , it’s seating plan has singles fitted as per a 150/2 chapman

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 52 car in 150 144 has a unique layout , it’s seating plan has singles fitted as per a 150/2 chapman

But otherwise facing seats? I bet that's fun. Don't think I've ever had that one.

 

[northwichcat]

What layout does it have? The only 2 layouts I have ever seen on the FNW units (and I travelled the area extensively in the 1990s) are the /1 layout (3 sets of bays per section, end section fully side facing) or the /2 layout (6 rows of airlines per section plus the stupid wasteful side facing seats, only part of the end section side facing).

Are you sure it's ex-FNW?

One that has no facing seats in the section between the two sets of doors in at least one carriage. Yes I'm sure it's ex-FNW - I can tell the difference between an ex-FNW one and one that came to the North West during the Northern Rail franchise with my eyes closed - they don't exactly have many similarities internally!

 

[D2007wsm]

There are far more than 1 or 2 sets.

The ex-FNW units all have, other than seats removed to fit the large bog, their original seating layout. So ALL the North West 150/2s have the unpleasant layout noted. The reason for this is the presence of underseat equipment boxes it wasn't feasible to move.

The 150/1s have the original all facing 150/1 layout except the bog bit.

Only those two I know of.

Wessex and Wales and Borders managed it when all of their 150/2s were reseated to 2x2 throughout with Chapman's and tables. Still seen today on GWR and ATW, although in a different colour.

 

[northwichcat]

Wessex and Wales and Borders managed it when all of their 150/2s were reseated to 2x2 throughout with Chapman's and tables. Still seen today on GWR and ATW, although in a different colour.

Indeed. With those refurbishments it appeared they looked at how many seats they could comfortably fit in, while with the FNW ones it appeared they tried to avoid reducing the number of seats as much as possible, with the exception of some loss of seats due to the larger toilet. I've heard they were put under pressure from GMPTE (as they were then known) to retain 3+2 seating. I wonder who's idea it was to put a bench seat opposite the toilet entrance, where there isn't really room for it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wessex and Wales and Borders managed it when all of their 150/2s were reseated to 2x2 throughout with Chapman's and tables. Still seen today on GWR and ATW, although in a different colour.

They have made few changes to the actual layout in those, they just removed the third seat and went wider on the others. Though there was a slight change, and I recall it means one of the equipment boxes is in a slightly awkward legroom-stealing position.

The spacing is still inhuman. To get a decent spacing you need to rejig those boxes and move to a layout of two tables per section, the rest airlines, and 6 rows per section, per the ex-Thameslink 319s which have a comfortable layout in the same bodyshell.

 

[brel york]

Indeed. With those refurbishments it appeared they looked at how many seats they could comfortably fit in, while with the FNW ones it appeared they tried to avoid reducing the number of seats as much as possible, with the exception of some loss of seats due to the larger toilet. I've heard they were put under pressure from GMPTE (as they were then known) to retain 3+2 seating. I wonder who's idea it was to put a bench seat opposite the toilet entrance, where there isn't really room for it?

We use the seat frames off the 4 seat bench for the 5 singles required in that area

 

[northwichcat]

We use the seat frames off the 4 seat bench for the 5 singles required in that area

Presuming you're talking about the ex-FNW ones I mean the Pacer style bench opposite the toilet door, not the longitudinal Chapman seats.