Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[Halish Railway]

I think we should just refer to this mess as a 'repaint'

 

[notlob.divad]

I think we should just refer to this mess as a 'repaint'

Its difficult to even refer to it as that given the amount of red still on 507021's list

 

[Mollman]

I don't get why they're doing it the way they are. When they redid the 156s they got new internal cladding and such...

They were started by the old Northern (Abellio / Serco) rather then the new Northern (Arriva)

 

[BurtonM]

I'm well aware. My point is that for all their shortcomings, the old Northern actually did the units alright.
ATN seem to be little better than the old ATN.

 

[northwichcat]

They were started by the old Northern (Abellio / Serco) rather then the new Northern (Arriva)

Under the old franchise the ex-FNW 156s got a repaint and new seat covers and a deep clean and re-emerged with the same old worn out carpets, until they later got new carpets so it seems the new franchise is doing the same with some units and only doing part of the work at first.

I was on a 142 last week where in one carriage the panels under the window were painted the standard Northern colour and in the other colour they were painted bright red (for some reason.)

 

[northwichcat]

ATN seem to be little better than the old ATN.

Under the pre-Northern Rail franchises both sides of the Pennines got brand new trains plus some existing trains got heavily refurbished - the 142s and 156s in the case of the east side and the 150s in the case of the west side.

 

[BurtonM]

I concur...
then again that's only what we were promised, refreshed 15x and the Civities.

 

[northwichcat]

I concur...
then again that's only what we were promised, refreshed 15x and the Civities.

Actually we've been promised 'like new' interiors, which most of us believed to mean 'like the interior on a new train' opposed to 'like how it was when the train was built except with a different colour scheme and the addition of PRM mods.'

 

[BurtonM]

Fair point. The current 'like new' seems to mean 'exactly as it left BREL', not 'like a new train'.

The combination of appliance white and a completely uninspired livery again points to a shoestring budget after a little thought. It can be made to look good externally at least (look at the Azuma livery) but in Northern's case, they've overused it, and made the disastrous mistake of putting it inside the train too.

 

[johntea]

Apologies if this has already been asked but as part of the refurbishments at some point are all units going to be fitted with some form of power (probably USB sockets)?

 

[northwichcat]

Apologies if this has already been asked but as part of the refurbishments at some point are all units going to be fitted with some form of power (probably USB sockets)?

No only the 158s are getting them as part of refurbishments. All trains will get free wi-fi though.

 

[capital12]

Fair point. The current 'like new' seems to mean 'exactly as it left BREL', not 'like a new train'.

The combination of appliance white and a completely uninspired livery again points to a shoestring budget after a little thought. It can be made to look good externally at least (look at the Azuma livery) but in Northern's case, they've overused it, and made the disastrous mistake of putting it inside the train too.

I certainly wouldn't use the VETC IET livery as example of looking good - it appears to have collected an old red sheet around the front while traveling along! The original mock up in Pendolino style looked far better in my opinion.

But back to Norhern - the more recently treated with the dark blue ends and below window panels seem far better than the initial few which were plain white inside. Will be interesting to see what happens regarding seats though!

The new Northern livery is awful though - I traveled on the 155 couple of weeks ago and it was filthy on the outside. A year to paint it and a week for the dirt to get ground in!!

They would have better off going for an all over dark blue or with white doors - maybe too similar to ScotRail but at least that looks smart (on the inside and out!).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I certainly wouldn't use the VETC IET livery as example of looking good - it appears to have collected an old red sheet around the front while traveling along! The original mock up in Pendolino style looked far better in my opinion.

But back to Norhern - the more recently treated with the dark blue ends and below window panels seem far better than the initial few which were plain white inside. Will be interesting to see what happens regarding seats though!

The new Northern livery is awful though - I traveled on the 155 couple of weeks ago and it was filthy on the outside. A year to paint it and a week for the dirt to get ground in!!

They would have better off going for an all over dark blue or with white doors - maybe too similar to ScotRail but at least that looks smart (on the inside and out!).

I agree that the new livery was a daft choice for a fleet that will always be predominantly diesel. Was it another Ray Stenning job by any chance? I know the hideous ICEC mess was.

 

[1179_Clee2]

New RAIL magazine 838

Two car 150276 is the 30th refurbished train in traffic with Northern, as the operator upgrades the interiors of trains and applies a new livery.
Northern Engineering Director Ben Ackroyd said "These refurbished units are bringing a real step change when it comes to the quality of rail travel in the North and this is just the first phase. The upgrades are part of a multi million pound rolling programme that will mean new seats and free WiFi for customers installed in the next round of works."
Northern's fleet of Class 150, 155, 156 and 158 DMU's will be treated as will its Class 319 EMU's. Class 170 from Scotrail will be refurbished and the Class 769 Flex bi-mode units will have refurbished interiors.

This reads that DMU's and 319's are having new seats BUT 769's and 170's are keeping the existing seats.

 

[capital12]

I agree that the new livery was a daft choice for a fleet that will always be predominantly diesel. Was it another Ray Stenning job by any chance? I know the hideous ICEC mess was.

I'm pretty certain it's not one of Ray's!

You're right the current VTEC is his, and although I usually like his work I'll admit I'm not a fan - I don't mind the coaches, I just find the loco part way too busy. I think they'd have been better in plain red.

But the livery on the 800/801, with the stupid name, that has been done in house and doesn't it show it! At least Ray tries to work with the architecture of the vehicle, even if it doesn't end up to everyone's taste (after all we all like different things!) but that Azuma thing looks like someone tried to apply the vinyls as it went by at 125!

 

[northwichcat]

New RAIL magazine 838

Two car 150276 is the 30th refurbished train in traffic with Northern, as the operator upgrades the interiors of trains and applies a new livery.
Northern Engineering Director Ben Ackroyd said "These refurbished units are bringing a real step change when it comes to the quality of rail travel in the North and this is just the first phase. The upgrades are part of a multi million pound rolling programme that will mean new seats and free WiFi for customers installed in the next round of works."
Northern's fleet of Class 150, 155, 156 and 158 DMU's will be treated as will its Class 319 EMU's. Class 170 from Scotrail will be refurbished and the Class 769 Flex bi-mode units will have refurbished interiors.

This reads that DMU's and 319's are having new seats BUT 769's and 170's are keeping the existing seats.

I wouldn't read that too literally. Someone previously claimed the 158s will get new seats. I can imagine that being true then if any other 15xs need seat replacements (such as the 156s arriving from Scotrail) they've got a load of ex-158 seats which can be used.

 

[Bornin1980s]

I wouldn't mind a 332 or two up on the Aire Valley, with their purple lighting to calm commuters after a busy day in Leeds...

Purple lighting!? I knew the 332s were imported, but I didn't know they were from another planet!

 

[northwichcat]

Planes with mood lighting switch to purple at times.

 

[Mordac]

First buses around Edinburgh also have purple lightning. This is to make veins harder to see so junkies don't shoot up in the back.

 

[northwichcat]

First buses around Edinburgh also have purple lightning. This is to make veins harder to see so junkies don't shoot up in the back.

Some public toilets have unusual colour lighting for that reason. In some cases it makes normal skin colour look grey - not good if your hands are dirty and you're trying to work out if you've properly cleaned them.

 

[jonesy3001]

Its to stop druggies going into the toilets and injecting themselves, they have them in lancaster bus station.

 

[capital12]

Currently on 319450 and it's had the PRM mods and the obvious repaint (still no vinyls though!). Inside nothing has been done other than painting the hand poles in Arriva turquoise - everything else still FCC!

Why bother doing the poles if you're not changing anything else?! They clash a bit with the pink seat grabs!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

First buses around Edinburgh also have purple lightning. This is to make veins harder to see so junkies don't shoot up in the back.

Unfortunately it also makes veins harder to see to avoid, not good for those like myself who need to inject insulin non-intravenously...

Funny how the same thing is both a hallmark of quality AND a hallmark of an absolute dive, though!

 

[railfan100]

The Northern diesel fleet as it stands today is nothing more than a retirement home for the worn out 15x fleet of units. Even the TOC's 'premium' 158 fleet from what I have seen is pretty much as it was in the early 1990's same seat frame just with new base cushions and material. Most people will not give up their cars to travel on this kind of stock especially considering the eye watering walk on fares to travel on life expired end of life stock. It is of little surprise that rail travel in the North has the reputation it currently does.

 

[notlob.divad]

Currently on 319450 and it's had the PRM mods and the obvious repaint (still no vinyls though!). Inside nothing has been done other than painting the hand poles in Arriva turquoise - everything else still FCC!

Why bother doing the poles if you're not changing anything else?! They clash a bit with the pink seat grabs!

Do grab poles, have to be 'high visibility' as part of the PRM Mods. Is it a case of doing what they have to for now?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do grab poles, have to be 'high visibility' as part of the PRM Mods. Is it a case of doing what they have to for now?

They are not on the LM 319s which have had compliant PIS and bog fitted.

 

[Starmill]

These refurbished units are bringing a real step change when it comes to the quality of rail travel in the North and this is just the first phase.

Step-change!? Outright lies. In the majority of cases the work beyond re-branding is limited to paint and accessible toilet modules. In the small number of cases where work has been done (admittedly I think 150 276 is an example) it is good but not fantastic. It's a series of gradual, mostly minor improvements. This is not a step-change.

I don't think anyone expected Rome to be built in a day with this either given the awful state of some of the inherited fleet, so this claim is just bizarre.

 

[387star]

When serco and abellio took over in 2004 I remember countless liveries. We had northern spirit arriva northern first north western North Western trains various defunct metro liveries regional railways north west and so on. .. then they got their act together and repainted the lot in a short space of time. Sadly interiors were left hardly touched till.their final years when the 158/156 and some 150s had a decent refurbishment... now we have countless interiors!

The awful pacers are off soon but there is no excuse for the rest. South west trains managed to quickly finalise and fit an interior to their 455s that made the average joe think 'new train '

Is it so hard ?

The 156 and 158 are potentially very good trains.

I'd have preferred to see the150 replaced but gwr have done a superb job on the /2s

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it so hard ?

No, but it costs money, which they want to gob off about spending while not actually spending it.

Of course you can do a quality 158 refurb - ATW and EMT have done so (the latter has even managed to make them better while still increasing the seating density substantially, while the former kept it about the same). Of course you can do a quality 156 refurb, ScotRail just did (notwithstanding that some people don't like ironing boards; other seat choices are of course available). Of course you can do a quality 150 refurb, ATW did that as well (notwithstanding that they *really* need to take 3 rows of seats out per coach).

Northern have done none of that, they have basically polished (and spray painted) a turd, which is all that has been done to any of their rolling stock since NWRR did the "NorthWest Express" Class 156 refurb with the Chapman seating in about 1995. (The Richmond seats in the east-side 156s are far worse, they are now falling to bits and surprise surprise still have not been replaced).

Alex Hynes' influence there again, then.

 

[superkev]

I wonder who decides what constitutes a refurbishment to as new condition as I believe was in the franchise agreement.
Also I wonder if anyone from the upper echelons of Northern read this forum.
K