Northern unit questions

[150222]

does anyone know if london midland 153366 is still at northern and if so when is it going back. I understand this is a temporary loan and a permanant unit has not been allocated yet.

 

[150222]

is there a reason why yorkshire crews dont sign 156's anymore? i know they got extra 158's but why are the 150's and 142's still here. i quite miss them on my local line.

 

[Lampshade]

Same reason Piccadilly and Buxton crews no longer sign 158s, no need to anymore and it'd probably cost too much to train them up again.

 

[150222]

does anyone know what is booked to run the 07.44 weekday northernrail todmorden to manchester victoria service it seems to be either 2 142s, 2 150s or 2 156s (the only 156 diagram on the calder valley) or a mixture of them (it is always 2 units). does anyone know what is officialy booked to work it, and i know it runs ecs over todmorden viaduct but where does it come from and where does it turn round. i thought it would be hallroyd junction but they go over the viaduct at quite a pace.

 

[150222]

i thought that 158's were banned from the buxton line?

 

[150222]

is it true that 150's were once banned from the lickey due to power issues? (i know they no longer are)

 

[yorkie]

I have merged these new topics into one, as they are all fairly similar and quite basic questions (not sure they're all worthy of a new topic), hope you don't mind

 

[ainsworth74]

As far as I'm aware 158s are not banned from the Buxton line. Indeed EMT's Norwich to Liverpool service (formed of 158s) make use of the line as does TPE who used to use 158s.

As for the Lickley and 150s pretty sure that's a myth.

 

[Lampshade]

i thought that 158's were banned from the buxton line?

The initial worry was the "air conditioning" units may pose clearance problems with low bridges. They gained clearance and subsquently Buxton crews signed them but they were rarely, if ever used.

 

[150222]

ah thanks

 

[Lampshade]

I think the 150s are being kept off Bromsgrove services because they no longer have enough power to get up Lickey.

 

[yorkie]

I was on a 150 that really struggled on the Hope Valley route, we were then late as a result. I also had a 150 to Buxton last week and it was really slow going up the incline. So I am not surprised they're kept off the Lickey incline.

 

[sprinterguy]

As far as I'm aware 158s are not banned from the Buxton line. Indeed EMT's Norwich to Liverpool service (formed of 158s) make use of the line as does TPE who used to use 158s.

The Buxton line is completely separate from the Hope Valley line which is used by EMTs' 158s and TPE, the line to Buxton being a branch lying to the south of the Manchester-Sheffield Hope Valley line. 142s and 153s are banned from the Buxton line due to them having difficulties with the severe gradients, but I've never heard of 158s being banned from the route.
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I think the 150s are being kept off Bromsgrove services because they no longer have enough power to get up Lickey.

As I have recently discovered, there is a regular weekend diagram for a 150 up the Lickey from Worcester. So it is indeed a myth that they are banned from the Lickey incline.

 

[MCR247]

So I am not surprised they're kept off the Lickey incline.

They aren't, it is a myth that is constantly doing the rounds

 

[yorkie]

The Buxton line is completely separate from the Hope Valley line...

Yes, I didn't pick up on that! EMT/TPE services from the Hope Valley Line only join up with trains from the Buxton line at Hazel Grove, having left the Hope Valley line at New Mills South Junction. But the Northern services in question do not meet up with trains from the Buxton line until Ardwick on the final approach to Piccadilly!

 

[ainsworth74]

The Buxton line is completely separate from the Hope Valley line which is used by EMTs' 158s and TPE, the line to Buxton being a branch lying to the south of the Manchester-Sheffield Hope Valley line.

Ahh well never mind then

If I may offer an excuse for this slight mistake it isn't exactly my home terrain!

 

[Lampshade]

142s and 153s are banned from the Buxton line due to them having difficulties with the severe gradients, but I've never heard of 158s being banned from the route.

142s are banned due to their inability to get up the gradients on one engine; and 153s... well they've only got one engine anyway

 

[158757]

153366 is still with Northern, no sign of it going back yet but it isn't allowed to work on its own as it hasn't got a wheelchair ramp.

Yorkshire crews don't sign 156's anymore as knowledge has lapsed due to them not working this side of the Pennines. With the common depot policy for unit's the 156's are all allocated to Newton Heath and work out of there. Merseytravel did pay for 6 158's to be used but in Yorkshire to displace 6 156's to Merseyside.

As for 142's being banned I thought this was something to do with the handbrake (or a brake issue). 153's work alone to Clitheroe which is also a steeply graded route and 142's work on the route as far as Blackburn so I'm not sure its a power related issue.

0744 TOD-MCV is booked 2x142 which run ECS from Newton Heath to Hebden Bridge where they cross over and run back down the line to Todmorden.

 

[bluenoxid]

Just to clarify in case you are wondering, Heaton has an allocation of 142s and 156s. The 156 situation may change with the opening of Allerton later this year.

 

[northwichcat]

Same reason Piccadilly and Buxton crews no longer sign 158s, no need to anymore and it'd probably cost too much to train them up again.

i thought that 158's were banned from the buxton line?

Buxton crews sign Manchester-Chester as well as the Buxton and Bolton lines.

158s are not banned from the Buxton line but when there first introduced there was a clearance issue with the exhaust pipe, which affected the Buxton line among others, but there was a modification allowed 158s to be cleared for the Buxton line.

From what I've heard Piccadilly crews never signed 158s. Prior to Northern taking over the 158s were signed by Chester, Victoria, Lime St and Blackpool crews (not sure about Buxton and Wigan.) 158s that appeared on the Altrincham line were signed by Chester or Victoria crews.

 

[driver9000]

Heaton is likely to keep it's allocation of 156s especially the ones fitted with GPS for working the passenger information system on the Whitby(?) line. Allerton is widely expected to receive the Newton Heath 156s.

Only Guards at Buxton sign Chester.

 

[northwichcat]

The Buxton line is completely separate from the Hope Valley line which is used by EMTs' 158s and TPE, the line to Buxton being a branch lying to the south of the Manchester-Sheffield Hope Valley line. 142s and 153s are banned from the Buxton line due to them having difficulties with the severe gradients

Indeed. 142s are used on Hazel Grove services and ATN are known to have used a 144 on a Manchester Airport to Cleethorphes service. However, Pacers and 153s are not permitted to run Hazel Grove to Buxton.
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Only Guards at Buxton sign Chester.

And only drivers at Victoria sign Chester (although guards did in the past.)

You can't argue with logic. :roll:

 

[driver9000]

You can't argue with logic. :roll:

I gave up trying to work out railway logic a long time ago

 

[northwichcat]

As for 142's being banned I thought this was something to do with the handbrake (or a brake issue). 153's work alone to Clitheroe which is also a steeply graded route and 142's work on the route as far as Blackburn so I'm not sure its a power related issue.

The Leftwich viaduct (Northwich-Greenbank) was found to be able to take Sprinters and 175s running at up to 50mph. However, it was considered dangerous for Pacers to do over 20mph. This is due to a combination of subsidence in the area caused by salt mining and Pacers not having enough bogies. From what I understand the Clitheroe line is a similar issue but over a longer distance, so in the case of Northwich-Greenbank banning Pacers from the line would only save 2-3 minutes off the journey time but in the case of the Clitheroe line it saves 15 minutes.

 

[150222]

142s are banned due to their inability to get up the gradients on one engine; and 153s... well they've only got one engine anyway

piccadilly crews don't sign 153's anyway

 

[Lampshade]

piccadilly crews don't sign 153's anyway

I never said they did, I'm saying 142s and 153s aren't cleared to Buxton.

 

[150222]

I never said they did, I'm saying 142s and 153s aren't cleared to Buxton.

oops sorry