Northern to strike over Christmas pay?

[MidnightFlyer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11879490

Basically Crow & Co. want Northern guards to be paid double time for working on the 27/28 December...

 

[YorkshireBear]

i cant decide whether there right to 2* pay is a bit much 1.5 for me on them two days

i berely get paid any extra
its 1.5 on christmas day if im lucky

 

[142094]

This is because Christmas and Boxing Day fall on a weekend this year, and the Monday and Tuesday will be days in lieu of this time off. Can't see the problem with double pay myself.

 

[me123]

Hardly anyone else will get paid extra for these days. This is pathetic. Bob Crowe has no understanding of how the real world works. I will most certainly not have any sympathy for the strikers, as I'm expected to be at work on these two days for the same rate as usual.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Hardly anyone else will get paid extra for these days. This is pathetic. Bob Crowe has no understanding of how the real world works. I will most certainly not have any sympathy for the strikers, as I'm expected to be at work on these two days for the same rate as usual.

at end of the day i agree, i get extra rate christmas day and new years eve after 6 pm

so i dont see why they should get double on 27th 28th

 

[313103]

Hardly anyone else will get paid extra for these days. This is pathetic. Bob Crowe has no understanding of how the real world works. I will most certainly not have any sympathy for the strikers, as I'm expected to be at work on these two days for the same rate as usual.

Once again foolhardy people slagging off Bob C R O W CROW It is, CROW it is, 'CROWE' it isnt!
Wait a minute did i say Bob Crow? I actually thought it was Northern Rail staff....... Oh silly me i must be really silly to think that ONLY Bob Crow makes staff vote for industrial action. I actually though that a legal ballot of RMT members in Northern rail were to be balloted not Bob Crow.... Oh silly me again.

So what your really saying is that because you MUST work for flat rate on over Christmas everyone else must? I dont think the real world works like that, unless i am being silly again.

Although how does having no staff and no trains on those days grab you? If the company thinks that staff should be working over Christmas then they should pay the going rate. It is rather fortunate that London Overground have no trains running due to engineering works otherwise the same scenario would apply here too.

I dont get sympathy from the general public when the service is running well, so i dont expect it when we go on strike or take industrial action.

Actually in my terms and Conditions it says 'Conductors will get paid Double time on the following days only 25 & 26 December, should those days fall on a weekend the Conductors will retrospectively get paid double time on the 27 & 28 December'. As an aside the only other day i get paid for any extra is Good Friday at time plus three quarters, ALL other days are paid at flat rate including other Bank holidays and Saturdays, even my wife who works for tesco has better renumeration, she is paid double time for Sundays and bank Holidays.

 

[asylumxl]

Although how does having no staff and no trains on those days grab you?

I like the sound of that .

 

[me123]

The going rate on the 27th and 28th of December is the same as any other day. It's not Christmas. Christmas it isn't (to paraphrase yourself). Running services on Christmas Day and Boxing Day would be a different issue. But you're talking about running trains on the Monday and Tuesday between Christmas and New Year. I have never heard of anyone in the real world getting extra pay for working on the Monday and Tuesday between Christmas and New Year.

And all this talk about these being the bank holidays... If Christmas Day fell on any other day, you wouldn't be getting extra pay for the 27th and 28th despite the company not running trains on Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

Although I did misspell his name, I think it's a rather minor issue.

And I don't see why I'm supposed to give you any sympathy when trains are running normally.

 

[Greenback]

It is Christmas. These are the two public holidays that are always recognised as such when Chirstmas Day and Boxing Day fall on a weekend. this is not a new situation - it happens every few years!

Many people in the 'real world' get those days off as public holidays, many who have to work receive an enhanced rate of pay. There is nothing wrong in it at all.

 

[Donny Dave]

So what your really saying is that because you MUST work for flat rate on over Christmas everyone else must? I dont think the real world works like that, unless i am being silly again.

Hmm, 2 guaranteed days off over Christmas, an early finish on Christmas Eve plus extra pay for working your rostered days when you get back to work. Sounds like a winner! Now, can every factory and warehouse employee in the country have the same deal please?

 

[Greenback]

Yes, if you ask your employer I am sure they will be happy to oblige. If I am wrong for some bizarre reason, you may have to form or join a union and fight for it, as previous genmerations have fought for many of the benefits we now take for granted.

 

[alexdodds]

I cant seem to recall any strikes by Northern Rail in the last 6 years maybe because i didnt read the news as much as i do now.

 

[ungreat]

Once again foolhardy people slagging off Bob C R O W CROW It is, CROW it is, 'CROWE' it isnt!
Wait a minute did i say Bob Crow? I actually thought it was Northern Rail staff....... Oh silly me i must be really silly to think that ONLY Bob Crow makes staff vote for industrial action. I actually though that a legal ballot of RMT members in Northern rail were to be balloted not Bob Crow.... Oh silly me again.

So what your really saying is that because you MUST work for flat rate on over Christmas everyone else must? I dont think the real world works like that, unless i am being silly again.

Although how does having no staff and no trains on those days grab you? If the company thinks that staff should be working over Christmas then they should pay the going rate. It is rather fortunate that London Overground have no trains running due to engineering works otherwise the same scenario would apply here too.

I dont get sympathy from the general public when the service is running well, so i dont expect it when we go on strike or take industrial action.

Actually in my terms and Conditions it says 'Conductors will get paid Double time on the following days only 25 & 26 December, should those days fall on a weekend the Conductors will retrospectively get paid double time on the 27 & 28 December'. As an aside the only other day i get paid for any extra is Good Friday at time plus three quarters, ALL other days are paid at flat rate including other Bank holidays and Saturdays, even my wife who works for tesco has better renumeration, she is paid double time for Sundays and bank Holidays.

We got this as a deal seeing as Chrimbo falls when it does....27/28th double time...im rostered to work so would have been there anyway..,just makes me more money for me doing my shift which i'm happy to do anyway

 

[313103]

Hmm, 2 guaranteed days off over Christmas, an early finish on Christmas Eve plus extra pay for working your rostered days when you get back to work. Sounds like a winner! Now, can every factory and warehouse employee in the country have the same deal please?

Actually my dear friend i would rather work on both Christmas day and Boxing because these days are taken off my Annual Leave quota and i would prefer to use them when i want them not have them forced upon me.

As for people in a warehouse or a factory that is down for them to sort that out. I belong to a trade union that represents my interests, perhaps maybe they should think likewise.

 

[YorkshireBear]

i dont really have a full enough understandind so retract all previous comments....

dont like strikes anyway, do my head in

 

[313103]

The going rate on the 27th and 28th of December is the same as any other day. It's not Christmas. Christmas it isn't (to paraphrase yourself). Running services on Christmas Day and Boxing Day would be a different issue. But you're talking about running trains on the Monday and Tuesday between Christmas and New Year. I have never heard of anyone in the real world getting extra pay for working on the Monday and Tuesday between Christmas and New Year.

Did you not read my terms and conditions for the Christmas period?

And I don't see why I'm supposed to give you any sympathy when trains are running normally.

Perhaps i should of said 'I dont expect sympathy any other time, so why should i not be surprised when we have industrial action'

To parraphrase a certain football chant from a South London team ' No one likes us'

 

[me123]

It is Christmas. These are the two public holidays that are always recognised as such when Chirstmas Day and Boxing Day fall on a weekend. this is not a new situation - it happens every few years!

But surely it's rather academic in rail staff given the nature of the job.

Someone who works Monday-Friday will be deprived of their holidays this year, hence the reason the bank holidays are being introduced. But rail staff work 5 days out of 7 (leaving the Sunday working stuff to one side). Consequently, they're hardly losing their days off; they're getting them on the right days.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Actually in my terms and Conditions it says 'Conductors will get paid Double time on the following days only 25 & 26 December, should those days fall on a weekend the Conductors will retrospectively get paid double time on the 27 & 28 December'. As an aside the only other day i get paid for any extra is Good Friday at time plus three quarters, ALL other days are paid at flat rate including other Bank holidays and Saturdays, even my wife who works for tesco has better renumeration, she is paid double time for Sundays and bank Holidays.

That's very interesting, given Northern don't run a service on 25th and 26th. Do they still roster conductors for those days?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

....But rail staff work 5 days out of 7 (leaving the Sunday working stuff to one side). Consequently, they're hardly losing their days off; they're getting them on the right days.

Rail staff only get paid for days they work or were supposed to work.

 

[bnm]

Once again foolhardy people slagging off Bob C R O W CROW It is, CROW it is, 'CROWE' it isnt!

Perhaps i should of said 'I dont expect sympathy any other time, so why should i not be surprised when we have industrial action'

To parraphrase a certain football chant from a South London team ' No one likes us'

If you are going to nit-pick over the spelling of Crow, then it's only fair I return the compliment.

It's I not i.
It's should have (or should've).
One two may r's in paraphrase.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Hmm, 2 guaranteed days off over Christmas, an early finish on Christmas Eve plus extra pay for working your rostered days when you get back to work. Sounds like a winner! Now, can every factory and warehouse employee in the country have the same deal please?

We all know what contracts we sign, whats your problem
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Once again foolhardy people slagging off Bob C R O W CROW It is, CROW it is, 'CROWE' it isnt!
Wait a minute did i say Bob Crow? I actually thought it was Northern Rail staff....... Oh silly me i must be really silly to think that ONLY Bob Crow makes staff vote for industrial action. I actually though that a legal ballot of RMT members in Northern rail were to be balloted not Bob Crow.... Oh silly me again.

So what your really saying is that because you MUST work for flat rate on over Christmas everyone else must? I dont think the real world works like that, unless i am being silly again.

Although how does having no staff and no trains on those days grab you? If the company thinks that staff should be working over Christmas then they should pay the going rate. It is rather fortunate that London Overground have no trains running due to engineering works otherwise the same scenario would apply here too.

I dont get sympathy from the general public when the service is running well, so i dont expect it when we go on strike or take industrial action.

Actually in my terms and Conditions it says 'Conductors will get paid Double time on the following days only 25 & 26 December, should those days fall on a weekend the Conductors will retrospectively get paid double time on the 27 & 28 December'. As an aside the only other day i get paid for any extra is Good Friday at time plus three quarters, ALL other days are paid at flat rate including other Bank holidays and Saturdays, even my wife who works for tesco has better renumeration, she is paid double time for Sundays and bank Holidays.

I'm with you on that one



Also may I add, if people want the terms and conditions like we have on the railway...GET A JOB ON THE RAILWAY, if you can't I'm sorry, I applied for my job, I passed the tests, I passed the interview and Medical, I do my job well, I keep people safe and try and keep my trains on time to the best of my ability, the most I normally ever get paid is time and a quarter for Sundays, thats what I signed on for, HOWEVER these 2 Bank Holidays are EXTRA and no agreement is in place, so thats why there is "discussion" about it

 

[Legzr1]

Actually in my terms and Conditions it says...

End of debate.


If those 'in the real world' are envious of such agreements then perhaps they should apply to join?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

End of debate.


If those 'in the real world' are envious of such agreements then perhaps they should apply to join?

Well Said!

 

[jon0844]

If the terms of employment say something should happen, it should happen. For once, I'm with the RMT!

However, there should be no need to strike. Why not have the union pay for a lawyer to take things up with Northern instead? Striking would lose a day's pay wouldn't it?

 

[142094]

More than likely that the threat of a strike will make Northern come around.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

More than likely that the threat of a strike will make Northern come around.

I'll be surprised if they don't come around as this time they would probably be the ones getting the bad press

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Northern have sent out a staff brief stating that the RMT agreed to take the double pay for 25th/26th out of the conditions of service and that RMTs demand is over and above that of their current conditions.

To be honest, if this is true then I have no simpathy for the RMT, although I might for some of the conductors, as it is the the RMT that agrees the pay deal on their behalf, by majority vote. This is the down side of Unions, whether you are in them or not.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Northern have sent out a staff brief stating that the RMT agreed to take the double pay for 25th/26th out of the conditions of service and that RMTs demand is over and above that of their current conditions.

To be honest, if this is true then I have no simpathy for the RMT, although I might for some of the conductors, as it is the the RMT that agrees the pay deal on their behalf, by majority vote. This is the down side of Unions, whether you are in them or not.

Just read it personally i'm still deciding my position however Northern are shooting themselves in the foot over this as staff morale is very low and has been for a cpl of years

 

[CarterUSM]

Doesn't seem like an unreasonable request to me, bank holiday = enhanced payment. Keep an eye on negotiations at pay deals and so forth, as well as minute changes to conditions of service, i've heard of things being signed away with minimal contact with the members. Go to your branch meetings wherever possible, i was surprised at how little i knew was going on in my grade before i started to attend more regularly.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I think when the people you 'employ' to discuss your contract with your employer, trade more money for less entitlements, you have less reason to demand those same entitlements on top of the new wage, this is what Northern say RMT are doing. If they give in to this then they may aswell give bank holiday payments back for every one of them. Then every other grade demands higher wages bacause they have lost out, where does it end? and how much does it cost joe public?

What is it they say in some movies "We don't give in to terrorists!" (cue fight scenes)

 

[tbtc]

I can't belive that this is an issue.

We've always known that sometimes Christmas falls on a weekend in some years. Either there is something in the contracts signed which allows for staff to be "compensated" for working the Monday/ Tuesday after a "weekend " Christmas, or there isn't. If staff and the TOC signed up to this (one way or the other) then both parties ought to honour it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Northern have sent out a staff brief stating that the RMT agreed to take the double pay for 25th/26th out of the conditions of service and that RMTs demand is over and above that of their current conditions.

To be honest, if this is true then I have no simpathy for the RMT, although I might for some of the conductors, as it is the the RMT that agrees the pay deal on their behalf, by majority vote. This is the down side of Unions, whether you are in them or not.

There's a lot of examples where organisations (not just Rail ones) have tried to negotiate certain "perks" / "Spanish practices" / "historic quirks" out of contracts when arranging pay rises. So a 3% pay rise may come at the cost of accepting a lower overtime rate/ reduced pension contributions/ no expectation of a Christmas "bonus".

To give an example, a few years ago I lost my "lunch allowance" in a previous job, for the sake of a higher annual salary.

People these days are more bothered about the hourly rate than the overall package (witness the way millions have been dumped out of decent pension schemes into poor alternatives).

However, if some of these "perks" have been sacrificed to get a better hourly rate, the it is disengenuous for the Union to now demand they are reinstated.