Northern to introduce evening peak restrictions

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Campaign for Better Transport's petition against the new restrictions appears to be gaining some traction!

Which is more than can be said for the lack of traction in the Todmorden Chord area at present...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If travelling from Rochdale costs £11, travelling by bus or tram is a cheaper way to do it.

Hands up all those who consider the fare structure on the Manchester Metrolink system to be much cheaper than that offered by Northern Rail per mile in the land of the TfGM empire.

 

[Tetchytyke]

She starts out well suggesting that there are problems with trains delayed and cancelled due to train crew shortages . Something I am sure will put some people off relying on trains to get to work . Something that is being resolved but with it taking so long to train guards and drivers things cant improve overnight on that front .

So there's no problem but it is being "resolved"? Nice bit of doublespeak. You're not a Serco director are you?

If Serco have allowed a situation to arise where they don't have enough staff, that is purely the fault of Serco. We all know why this situation has arisen: appalling management leading to poor morale leading to everyone leaving as soon as they can. There are regular threats of strikes, especially in the north west, and that again is purely down to the incompetence of Serco management. Last year Serco management took away the staff Christmas bonus to save all of £35 per member of staff.

It does take a while to train up guards and drivers. But perhaps the drivers and guards wouldn't be flooding to the exits if they hadn't been treated like rubbish for the last five years.

She also suggests that the fares have rocketed for anybody that is traveling between 16:01and 18:29 . This is simply not not true . Many people who wish to travel during this evening peak will have traveled in the morning one and will have a season ticket or an Anytime return which will be valid in the evening peak . So the fares are not rocketing for anybody .

For anybody? Are you sure about that?

The fares will be sky-rocketing for most off-peak leisure travellers. You now have to finish your shopping at 3.45 or you have to stand around twiddling your thumbs for nearly three hours. People who are heading into town for an evening out are now faced with waiting until well after half six to set off, or not bothering at all, despite the fact the contra-peak trains are carting fresh air around. And that's before we consider the significant number of people using PTE leisure products who have no option to "upgrade" to a rip-off Anytime fare.

People who travel in the morning peak won't be facing the same level of fares increase (though do remember that Anytime fares are not regulated). But to say "nobody" will be facing a fares increase is laughable.

All this whilst Serco directors take home nearly £40m a year in profits. And yes, I blame DafT and the Tory Scum (and their Tory Lite Scum predecessors) just as much as Serco's greedy troughing directors. Yet again we get a toxic ideology instead of a genuine public service, the poorest paying for the yachts of the richest.

This whole fiasco proves, once and for all, that privatisation is nothing more than legalised kleptomania.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Only just seen a copy of the information leaflet, and I'm a bit confused by all this.

A handful of clarificatory questions, say for a journey today from Stalybridge to Manchester Central Zone.

You've just missed the 1550 train, and the next two trains are the 1608 Northern Rail service to Manchester Victoria and the 1615 First TransPennine Express service to Manchester Piccadilly

If you held a £3.20 off peak day single ticket, and wanted to travel on the 1608 Northern Rail service, would you then be liable to pay an additional £3.50 to "upgrade" to an anytime day single, or just the £0.30 difference?

What would happen if you instead wanted to travel on the 1615 First TransPennine Express service?

How much would you be additionally charged if you held a GM Rail Ranger, or a Daysaver TM (Metrolink & Rail) type ticket?

And how much would you be additionally charged if you held a £3.30 Off-Peak Day Return? (Outward portion, or return portion).

 

[bb21]

Only just seen a copy of the information leaflet, and I'm a bit confused by all this.

A handful of clarificatory questions, say for a journey today from Stalybridge to Manchester Central Zone.

You've just missed the 1550 train, and the next two trains are the 1608 Northern Rail service to Manchester Victoria and the 1615 First TransPennine Express service to Manchester Piccadilly

If you held a £3.20 off peak day single ticket, and wanted to travel on the 1608 Northern Rail service, would you then be liable to pay an additional £3.50 to "upgrade" to an anytime day single, or just the £0.30 difference?

30p

What would happen if you instead wanted to travel on the 1615 First TransPennine Express service?

Again, 30p

How much would you be additionally charged if you held a GM Rail Ranger, or a Daysaver TM (Metrolink & Rail) type ticket?

New ticket.

And how much would you be additionally charged if you held a £3.30 Off-Peak Day Return? (Outward portion, or return portion).

£2.50, to the Anytime Day Return at £5.80

 

[Howardh]

If I read this rightly - a return TPE train to Manchester Airport gives you a return time (say 2.20pm) but if your flight is delayed you get three hours "grace" - so you could catch a return train home at 5.15pm and your ticket is still valid.

Or is it...as the original was booked in the off-peak zones? Would the guard demand extra payment?

 

[bb21]

The "grace" you refer to only applies to Airport Advance fares, where the passenger misses his booked service.

If you have a walk-on ticket and your flight is delayed causing you to travel at a restricted time, an excess fare is payable.

Whether that excess fare will be collected in reality is another question.

 

[northwichcat]

Most people boarding a train at Manchester Airport wouldn't be using the return part of an Off-Peak Day Return after alighting a flight. If you're using the return part of an Off-Peak Return then it's unaffected by the new restrictions.

 

[Howardh]

Got another one. While the System 1 train/bus is explained clearly (as long as you can find it!) this is what is currently shown r/e 60+ local bus passes;
You can travel for free on buses, Metrolink trams and on local trains.
On Metrolink, you must touch in at the smart reader using your pass when you start your journey and touch out at a smart reader when you complete it.
For more information on how to use your pass on Metrolink click her​e​.
On buses, drivers will expect you to use the onboard card reader or to show your pass. They will let you know which is required when you board.
On trains, show your pass when requested to do so.
I presume bus-pass folk can't use it on trains in peak PM hours like they used to?

 

[bb21]

Most people boarding a train at Manchester Airport wouldn't be using the return part of an Off-Peak Day Return after alighting a flight. If you're using the return part of an Off-Peak Return then it's unaffected by the new restrictions.

... hence the term "restricted time".

Off-Peak Returns (not Day Returns) do not have afternoon restrictions in the Manchester area (or anywhere else not around London), so are not affected.

 

[Howardh]

Most people boarding a train at Manchester Airport wouldn't be using the return part of an Off-Peak Day Return after alighting a flight. If you're using the return part of an Off-Peak Return then it's unaffected by the new restrictions.

Off peak return or off peak day return (or both)? If so, that's not what I was assuming that you couldn't do this with either ticket?

BTW is it possible to book, days in advance, a timed advance day return to the airport (let's say for someone greeting a passenger at the airport on their return - I would suggest that's very common?) and be delayed by their arrival so the return is in peak hours (ie within the three hour grace?)??

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Only just seen a copy of the information leaflet, and I'm a bit confused by all this.

A handful of clarificatory questions, say for a journey today from Stalybridge to Manchester Central Zone.

You've just missed the 1550 train, and the next two trains are the 1608 Northern Rail service to Manchester Victoria and the 1615 First TransPennine Express service to Manchester Piccadilly

If you held a £3.20 off peak day single ticket, and wanted to travel on the 1608 Northern Rail service, would you then be liable to pay an additional £3.50 to "upgrade" to an anytime day single, or just the £0.30 difference?

If you were stuck at Stalybridge I'd advise you to put the money you'd spend excessing your ticket towards a couple of pints in the Buffet Bar and wait there till 1829!

 

[Howardh]

If I go from Bolton to Manchester day ret (out 6 pm peak, ret 10 pm off peak) that is more expensive than leaving at 7pm, but if I was to go Bolton - Huddersfield there is no change in fare if I leave at 5.30 or 6.45pm.

Are these changes simply within Gtr. Manchester as I thought W Yorkshire also had restrictions? What if you cross the border say Greenfield out peak, return same day from marsden off-peak?

 

[muz379]

So there's no problem but it is being "resolved"? Nice bit of doublespeak. You're not a Serco director are you?

If Serco have allowed a situation to arise where they don't have enough staff, that is purely the fault of Serco. We all know why this situation has arisen: appalling management leading to poor morale leading to everyone leaving as soon as they can. There are regular threats of strikes, especially in the north west, and that again is purely down to the incompetence of Serco management. Last year Serco management took away the staff Christmas bonus to save all of £35 per member of staff.

It does take a while to train up guards and drivers. But perhaps the drivers and guards wouldn't be flooding to the exits if they hadn't been treated like rubbish for the last five years.

It is not doublespeak at all , and I am not a serco director . I am merely pointing out that Northern Is Aware that there is a problem and is trying to resolve it by training more Drivers and Guards as quickly as possible .They are limited by their training resources though .

I did not deny that the problem of non available train crew leading to cancelled services is anybodies fault but serco .

However even if as you suggest it is down to poor management leading to high staff turnover , we have now arrived at this situation . Even if we saw a change in management style overnight the problem would not be resolved it still needs the training of massive numbers of traincrew to replace those that have been lost .

Incidentally I dont know if the issue is poor management or staff just leaving to do a better class of work at other operators . But at least Northern are aware there is an issue and have put a plan in place and are trying to resolve the issue . This is merely what I was pointing out . We could debate all day about the what wheres whys and whens but the fact is they are aware of the issue and have put a plan in place to resolve it .

For anybody? Are you sure about that?

The fares will be sky-rocketing for most off-peak leisure travellers. You now have to finish your shopping at 3.45 or you have to stand around twiddling your thumbs for nearly three hours. People who are heading into town for an evening out are now faced with waiting until well after half six to set off, or not bothering at all, despite the fact the contra-peak trains are carting fresh air around. And that's before we consider the significant number of people using PTE leisure products who have no option to "upgrade" to a rip-off Anytime fare.

People who travel in the morning peak won't be facing the same level of fares increase (though do remember that Anytime fares are not regulated). But to say "nobody" will be facing a fares increase is laughable.

All this whilst Serco directors take home nearly £40m a year in profits. And yes, I blame DafT and the Tory Scum (and their Tory Lite Scum predecessors) just as much as Serco's greedy troughing directors. Yet again we get a toxic ideology instead of a genuine public service, the poorest paying for the yachts of the richest.

This whole fiasco proves, once and for all, that privatisation is nothing more than legalised kleptomania.

She quite clearly said what I have copied and pasted from her article below . which to me is misleading because on two occassions she uses the word "anybody" Like I said for a regional editor of a major newspaper to be so off the ball is in my opinion embarrassing .

This is not the first media "scare story" that has been put out about that either . Today the Manchester evening news is running a story saying that the fare between wigan and Manchester has gone up 117% from £4.20 to £9.10 leading passengers to think that they will no longer be able to travel from wigan to Manchester for £4.20 which is quite obviously a lie because for passengers traveling outside of the peak periods they can still buy an off peak return which will still be valid . I have a real problem with such inaccurate and scaremongering journalism and such stories are only going to cause grief for conductors as people take their information from such inaccurate sources and think the situation is much worse than it actually is .

If you took the time to read what I said in the post you are quoting as well as my earlier posts in this thread I have not said that "nobody" will face a fares increase . However not everybody will be facing a fare increase either so her piece is factually incorrect . Perhaps you have misinterpreted what I have put . But I was pointing out that her examples of services and suggesting that anybody travelling on them will be hit is wrong . Only people traveling on them who have not traveled in the morning peak and bought an anytime return will be hit .

I have acknowledged on more than one occasion that leisure travelers traveling in the current off peak period in the evening will be hit by these new restrictions . And earlier in this post I agreed with a fellow member who suggested that the evening peak restrictions if we are going to have them should not apply to flows against the peak traffic although this would be a bit difficult with some routes on northern but still something could be done about it . I even pointed out in my post that she has missed out on the removal of the cheap evening return which will hit people traveling after half 6 even harder than the introduction of an evening peak .

For anyone using the Manchester-Liverpool service at that hour, the journey is about to get £4.20 more expensive each day, with an anytime return costing a hefty £18.90.

So for anyone wanting to get home from work at a sensible time, an already rubbish service will now cost significantly more. It’s an insult and Northern Rail is a disgrace.

 

[northwichcat]

Off peak return or off peak day return (or both)?

Off Peak Returns aren't affected, Off Peak Day Returns are affected. The point I was making is the majority of people who board the train after alighting a flight at Manchester Airport will be using the return part of Off Peak Returns not Off Peak Day Returns.

a return TPE train to Manchester Airport gives you a return time (say 2.20pm) but if your flight is delayed you get three hours "grace" - so you could catch a return train home at 5.15pm and your ticket is still valid.

BTW is it possible to book, days in advance, a timed advance day return to the airport (let's say for someone greeting a passenger at the airport on their return - I would suggest that's very common?) and be delayed by their arrival so the return is in peak hours (ie within the three hour grace?)??

Sorry I'm finding the scenario you describe difficult to comprehend.

You're saying someone in a place like Bolton would buy a off-peak day return to Manchester Airport at say 13:15 to meet someone scheduled to arrive at 14:20 who then doesn't arrive until 17:15. Would the person in Bolton not check the scheduled flight arrival information before leaving Bolton? OK if they were coming from Edinburgh then they may not be able to check before departing (as they'd may have to leave before the flight status is known) but then they wouldn't have a ticket which was affected by the new restrictions.

 

[Howardh]

Off Peak Returns aren't affected, Off Peak Day Returns are affected. The point I was making is the majority of people who board the train after alighting a flight at Manchester Airport will be using the return part of Off Peak Returns not Off Peak Day Returns.



Sorry I'm finding the scenario you describe difficult to comprehend.

You're saying someone in a place like Bolton would buy a off-peak day return to Manchester Airport at say 13:15 to meet someone scheduled to arrive at 14:20 who then doesn't arrive until 17:15. Would the person in Bolton not check the flight arrival information before leaving Bolton?

Flight might be short haul - from Amsterdam (that was my last meet-and-greet) and it wasn't scheduled to leave Schipol before I left home! As it happens there was a slight delay (about 30'). Mind you, I did go for the o/p day-return so half my senario fails!

EDIT if people do go for an o/p day return to collect from the airport - and then find because of delays they are returning during the peak, I hope they don't get treated like common criminals by the guards?! And will the ticket machine sell a ticket for the difference anyway?

 

[northwichcat]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it but have Northern proposed what will happen if the last train before the evening peak restrictions is cancelled?

Or what happens if you have to change and due to late running/cancellation of the first service you don't make a 15:55 train departing Manchester with the next one not until 16:55?

 

[Howardh]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it but have Northern proposed what will happen if the last train before the evening peak restrictions is cancelled?

Or what happens if you have to change and due to late running/cancellation of the first service you don't make a 15:55 train departing Manchester with the next one not until 16:55?

If the train scheduled is late, I presume you can catch it.
If it's cancelled, I'm sure you could catch the next timetabled train, otherwise the following guard will have to put up with plenty of disgruntled passengers - first with the cancellation and next decause of the price-hike due to the cancellation! Common sense would prevail...???

 

[muz379]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it but have Northern proposed what will happen if the last train before the evening peak restrictions is cancelled?

Or what happens if you have to change and due to late running/cancellation of the first service you don't make a 15:55 train departing Manchester with the next one not until 16:55?

if its cancelled and no alternative busses are put on then hopefully common sense would prevail and the guard of the following service would not excess fares for people that intended to travel on the earlier service .

From what I have seen we have not been briefed about this so im assuming it is one of them situations in which you would use your discretion

To be honest if a train has been cancelled meaning that 2 train loads are getting on one train , no guard is going to be able to come down the train to excess fares

 

[Howardh]

Thought of another oddity....
If you have a GM day ranger or off peak DR - if it were possible (dunno if it is) you could catch a train from Horwich to, say, Hazel Grove just before the peak restriction and get off without problem, but if there wasn't a direct train then you would have to get off at Piccadilly but wouldn't be allowed to alight the connection until 6.30pm?

But are you allowed to catch a connection if your journey starts off-peak, providing you don't leave the connecting station?

 

[northwichcat]

if its cancelled and no alternative busses are put on then hopefully common sense would prevail and the guard of the following service would not excess fares for people that intended to travel on the earlier service .

From what I have seen we have not been briefed about this so im assuming it is one of them situations in which you would use your discretion

To be honest if a train has been cancelled meaning that 2 train loads are getting on one train , no guard is going to be able to come down the train to excess fares

I was meaning a journey like

Hazel Grove - Bolton

Departing Hazel Grove at 15:04
Arriving at Piccadilly at 15:27

Then another train
Departs Piccadilly at 15:46
And arrives at Bolton at 16:06

However, the first train is delayed so you can't catch the 15:46 and have to catch the 16:03 Piccadilly-Bolton instead.

 

[Howardh]

Here's one I might use involving a change - 1546 Horwich - Greenfield. According the NR website that's wholly an o/p journey including the change - with a o/p day ret but probably not a Ranger. But suppose that particular train IS cancelled....I might be allowed on the next one to Piccadilly but not the next leg to Greenfield??

 

[bb21]

Flight might be short haul - from Amsterdam (that was my last meet-and-greet) and it wasn't scheduled to leave Schipol before I left home! As it happens there was a slight delay (about 30'). Mind you, I did go for the o/p day-return so half my senario fails!

EDIT if people do go for an o/p day return to collect from the airport - and then find because of delays they are returning during the peak, I hope they don't get treated like common criminals by the guards?! And will the ticket machine sell a ticket for the difference anyway?

You are confusing a lot of things. I won't quote all the posts you made but I will try and answer all your questions if I remember.

Cross-border travel is generally not affected, even if both areas are seeing evening restrictions implemented (with a small number of exceptions), so a Huddersfield - Bolton Off-Peak Day Return has no evening restriction, as opposed to a Stalybridge - Bolton equivalent ticket.

If you buy Airport Advance fares, you must travel on your booked train, with a three hour window afterwards if your flight is delayed. There is no return Advance fares per se, as they all come as singles, and Airport Advance is just a special type of Advance fare. Advance fares are not affected by time restrictions (by definition, as you are tied to specific trains).

If you find yourself travelling at a restricted time with an Off-Peak Day Return (or any other ticket for that matter), the correct course of action is an excess fare. You can only get in trouble if you refuse to pay the excess. You should not be treated as a criminal without being offered the chance to pay the excess fare. (See NRCoC Condition 12.)

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it but have Northern proposed what will happen if the last train before the evening peak restrictions is cancelled?

Or what happens if you have to change and due to late running/cancellation of the first service you don't make a 15:55 train departing Manchester with the next one not until 16:55?

In both circumstances, you should be permitted to take the next available service.

Thought of another oddity....
If you have a GM day ranger or off peak DR - if it were possible (dunno if it is) you could catch a train from Horwich to, say, Hazel Grove just before the peak restriction and get off without problem, but if there wasn't a direct train then you would have to get off at Piccadilly but wouldn't be allowed to alight the connection until 6.30pm?

But are you allowed to catch a connection if your journey starts off-peak, providing you don't leave the connecting station?

No, you cannot catch a connection starting at a restricted time according to Northern.

 

[muz379]

I was meaning a journey like

Hazel Grove - Bolton

Departing Hazel Grove at 15:04
Arriving at Piccadilly at 15:27

Then another train
Departs Piccadilly at 15:46
And arrives at Bolton at 16:06

However, the first train is delayed so you can't catch the 15:46 and have to catch the 16:03 Piccadilly-Bolton instead.

To be a pedant .
In that case I would advise the passenger to change trains at stockpot because then they would be boarding the train that runs from Piccadilly at 16:03 before peak time begins and will be ok . In fact if they have a ticket from Hazel G to Bolton , and the guard changes at oxford road then how is that guard going to know that they got on at picc or stockpot or even hazel G .


In that case you are likely to get hit . Unless the guard on the 16:03 has got an email about the 15:04 being delayed and checked his phone or believes what you are saying .

I guess in that case you could write to customer services who will then be able to check if your first train ran delayed and issue you with a refund for the excess . But that is not really going to be satisfactory for the customer


What about if you have a GM day ranger and so could have started a journey on that 16:03 at stockpot so would be fine to use your valid ranger . What is to stop people claiming they got on the train before it became a peak service .

 

[Howardh]

You are confusing a lot of things. I won't quote all the posts you made but I will try and answer all your questions if I remember.

Cross-border travel is generally not affected, even if both areas are seeing evening restrictions implemented (with a small number of exceptions), so a Huddersfield - Bolton Off-Peak Day Return has no evening restriction, as opposed to a Stalybridge - Bolton equivalent ticket.

If you buy Airport Advance fares, you must travel on your booked train, with a three hour window afterwards if your flight is delayed. There is no return Advance fares per se, as they all come as singles, and Airport Advance is just a special type of Advance fare. Advance fares are not affected by time restrictions (by definition, as you are tied to specific trains).

If you find yourself travelling at a restricted time with an Off-Peak Day Return (or any other ticket for that matter), the correct course of action is an excess fare. You can only get in trouble if you refuse to pay the excess. You should not be treated as a criminal without being offered the chance to pay the excess fare. (See NRCoC Condition 12.)



In both circumstances, you should be permitted to take the next available service.



No, you cannot catch a connection starting at a restricted time according to Northern.

In my case, the connection is at Bolton 4pm - off peak....if I carried on and connected at Salford Crescent at 4.12 then that's peak so my ticket isn't valid. Well at least it's clear, your off peak day return starting off-peak afternoons at your local station isn't valid if you have to change half-way and the change is peak......but it is valid if your train is direct. Same train....same times...different prices!
Dontcha just love living in the UK! No wonder Scotland's fed up.

 

[Tetchytyke]

She quite clearly said what I have copied and pasted from her article below . which to me is misleading because on two occassions she uses the word "anybody" Like I said for a regional editor of a major newspaper to be so off the ball is in my opinion embarrassing .

You've said the changes won't affect anyone. She's said that anybody holding an off-peak ticket will be facing a huge extra charge.

What she said is accurate. What you said is not.

Today the Manchester evening news is running a story saying that the fare between wigan and Manchester has gone up 117% from £4.20 to £9.10 leading passengers to think that they will no longer be able to travel from wigan to Manchester for £4.20 which is quite obviously a lie because for passengers traveling outside of the peak periods they can still buy an off peak return which will still be valid

Where is the factual inaccuracy? The afternoon fare has gone up 117%, and this will affect a significant number of leisure travellers and shift workers. I don't think the reports are "scaremongering" at all, especially as they all reference Northern Rail's response of "pay up or don't travel".

I understand what you're trying to argue- that it isn't such a big deal because the morning travellers won't be affected- but I don't think that's true. A lot of people will be facing fare increases of 120% in the next month, because this Tory government would rather extort money from the poorest in society rather than cut Serco's obscene profits.

Just how ridiculous the situation is is shown by Serco's internal briefings. If you start a journey in the off-peak you won't be allowed to continue it during the peak, unless it's a direct train. Cue argument after argument with passengers who think they've done the correct thing in going home early, and find that they may as well have stayed in the shops in the first place.

As an aside, does anybody know what the most expensive (to the TOC) way of paying for a fare is? If they're going to try and get 30p out of me, I'd like to make it as difficult and expensive as possible for them.

I hope the guards have thick skins, because they're going to need them. I don't understand why Serco are struggling to keep their staff, it's a complete mystery.

 

[Howardh]

Let's play a game - ticket differences in Greater Manchester. This is the best I can come up with so far...

Last week - Blackrod - Greenfield leaving @1613 day return 2036 = £4.20
Today, same journey same times = £11. Rail Ranger not valid...but the Wayfarer is, whicg AFAIK is....er, £11.

Of course, there's always the System One bus-only day ticket for about half that!

EDIT if you multiply 4.20 by 250% it's still short of £11!! That's a bit of an increase :-x

 

[Deerfold]

Let's play a game - ticket differences in Greater Manchester. This is the best I can come up with so far...

Last week - Blackrod - Greenfield leaving @1613 day return 2036 = £4.20
Today, same journey same times = £11. Rail Ranger not valid...but the Wayfarer is, whicg AFAIK is....er, £11.

Of course, there's always the System One bus-only day ticket for about half that!

EDIT if you multiply 4.20 by 250% it's still short of £11!! That's a bit of an increase :-x

£11 is a 161% increase (261% of the original price).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Are these changes simply within Gtr. Manchester as I thought W Yorkshire also had restrictions? What if you cross the border say Greenfield out peak, return same day from marsden off-peak?

Journeys within West Yorkshire have the restriction.
Journeys within South Yorkshire have the restriction.
Journeys within Greater Manchester have the restriction.
Journeys from selected stations outside of Greater Manchester to Manchester or Salford (and places on line of route) have the restriction.
Some journeys to the west of Newcastle have the restriction.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Journeys within West Yorkshire have the restriction.
Journeys within South Yorkshire have the restriction.
Journeys within Greater Manchester have the restriction.
Journeys from selected stations outside of Greater Manchester to Manchester or Salford (and places on line of route) have the restriction.
Some journeys to the west of Newcastle have the restriction.

Hate to be pedantic but for the top two you need to insert the word "wholly" between "journeys" and "within". You can still travel from West Yorkshire to South Yorkshire (and vice versa) on an off peak ticket within the new afternoon peak times.

 

[Deerfold]

Hate to be pedantic but for the top two you need to insert the word "wholly" between "journeys" and "within". You can still travel from West Yorkshire to South Yorkshire (and vice versa) on an off peak ticket within the new afternoon peak times.

I don't think you do. If you leave West Yorkshire it changes from a "journey within West Yorkshire" to "a journey partly within West Yorkshire".