Northern to Birmingham

[Whistler40145]

If any TOC should operate a Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham New Street service, then surely it has to be West Midlands Railways.

One option could be to extend a Birmingham New Street to Rugeley Trent Valley service via Stafford and Stoke on Trent to Manchester Piccadilly or divert the current Liverpool Lime Street to Birmingham New Street service to start back at Manchester Piccadilly and run via Wolverhampton and Birmingham New Street to London Euston.

 

[The Planner]

If any TOC should operate a Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham New Street service, then surely it has to be West Midlands Railways.

One option could be to extend a Birmingham New Street to Rugeley Trent Valley service via Stafford and Stoke on Trent to Manchester Piccadilly or divert the current Liverpool Lime Street to Birmingham New Street service to start back at Manchester Piccadilly and run via Wolverhampton and Birmingham New Street to London Euston.

No paths via Colwich, and no one is going to reduce the Liverpool service down to 1tph from Brum.

 

[Purple Orange]

However XC doesn't stop at all those stations so of course it would be faster, a better comparison would be to compare it to a existing stopping service using existing trains and services that use it today.

Then you be able to compare more fairly.

I’m comparing to XC to highlight that the time difference isn’t huge, plus most people would have transferred to using the HS2 service for Manc-Brum journeys.

 

[317 forever]

Can't remember whether it was Airport or Piccadilly diagram for the Guard, definitely no drivers based at the Airport, but there was definitely an overnight FNW job working from Manchester to Birmingham New Street/International, which worked the Class 1s (semi-fast) back in the morning. They even carried on 2 semi-fasts under Northern, which started at Stoke-on-Trent, surviving through the VHF recast, as I remember working them until at least 2008/2009.

There were even limited daytime examples. In March 1997 I travelled from Crewe to Birmingham New Street on a Regional Railways North West class 323.

 

[Ianno87]

There were even limited daytime examples. In March 1997 I travelled from Crewe to Birmingham New Street on a Regional Railways North West class 323.

Sure that wasn't a Central Trains example? They regularly turned up on Liverpool-Birmingham services about that time.

 

[317 forever]

Sure that wasn't a Central Trains example? They regularly turned up on Liverpool-Birmingham services about that time.

Yes I am sure. My ride was a journey that had started in Manchester. It might only have run about 3 times a day. I rode Central Trains between Liverpool and Birmingham separately.

 

[Philip]

No paths via Colwich, and no one is going to reduce the Liverpool service down to 1tph from Brum.

Could a freight not be re-routed along the North Staffs railway in order to free up a path between Colwich and Stafford?

 

[The Planner]

Could a freight not be re-routed along the North Staffs railway in order to free up a path between Colwich and Stafford?

What is the North Staffs?

 

[Whistler40145]

I assumed the North Staffordshire Line was Crewe to Derby via Stoke on Trent

 

[Philip]

What is the North Staffs?

The line between Colwich Junction and Stoke-on-Trent. So freight trains can rejoin the WCML at Crewe, running through Alsager.

 

[JonathanH]

The line between Colwich Junction and Stoke-on-Trent. So freight trains can rejoin the WCML at Crewe, running through Alsager.

The conflicting movements at Colwich, Stone, Stoke, Kidsgrove and Crewe and single track section might pose some issues with that.

 

[Ianno87]

The conflicting movements at Colwich, Stone, Stoke, Kidsgrove and Crewe and single track section will certainly pose some issues with that.

Corrected for you

 

[The Planner]

The line between Colwich Junction and Stoke-on-Trent. So freight trains can rejoin the WCML at Crewe, running through Alsager.

Others have answered, but no good if they need to get to Basford Hall either.

 

[Whistler40145]

Others have answered, but no good if they need to get to Basford Hall either.

Indeed, no access off the Stoke line to Basford Hall Yard

 

[Cheshire Scot]

There were even limited daytime examples. In March 1997 I travelled from Crewe to Birmingham New Street on a Regional Railways North West class 323.

When the class 309s were withdrawn 323s took over the twice daily Manchester to Birmingham round trips - the overnight which returned as a limited stop morning peak Manchester arrival ran with 6 cars for a spell (vice 8 car 309) before reverting to a hugely overcrowded - well over 400 pass - 3 car (just under 300 seats, or less if it was one of the three 'Airport' sets with luggage stacks). I seem to recall they had to take the Cheadle Hulme stop out as people could not get on.

 

[CJ]

Not my photo, but this is the only photographic evidence I could find of a RRNW / GMPTE liveried Class 323 Manchester - Birmingham service (can just about make out the 'Birmingham New Street' on the digital destination blind):

323234

323234 leaves Crewe bound for Birmingham New Street with a service from Manchester Piccadilly. The unit carries GMPTE livery.

www.flickr.com

 

[Sprinter107]

Not my photo, but this is the only photographic evidence I could find of a RRNW / GMPTE liveried Class 323 Manchester - Birmingham service (can just about make out the 'Birmingham New Street' on the digital destination blind):

323234

323234 leaves Crewe bound for Birmingham New Street with a service from Manchester Piccadilly. The unit carries GMPTE livery.

www.flickr.com

Yes, they definitely ran, cos i used to catch the early evening working from Stafford to Birmingham quite regularly.

 

[Ianno87]

Not my photo, but this is the only photographic evidence I could find of a RRNW / GMPTE liveried Class 323 Manchester - Birmingham service (can just about make out the 'Birmingham New Street' on the digital destination blind):

323234

323234 leaves Crewe bound for Birmingham New Street with a service from Manchester Piccadilly. The unit carries GMPTE livery.

www.flickr.com

Certainly can't argue with seeing one in Platform 5 at Crewe, clearly departing southwards!

 

[6Gman]

The conflicting movements at Colwich, Stone, Stoke, Kidsgrove and Crewe and single track section might pose some issues with that.

Could Northern extend their Manchester-Stockport-Crewe stopper to Birmingham? I'm thinking they could run either non stop south of Crewe or perhaps just at Stafford. It would be slower than the current services but Northern could tempt some passengers away from Cross Country by selling cheap Northern only fares, and thereby helping to reduce the overcrowding on the CC services. Cheaper Northern only fares between Stafford and Birmingham would also help ease overcrowding in the WMT services.

Or you could reduce the overcrowding on the CC services by running slightly longer trains. And you could ease overcrowding on WMT between Stafford and New Street (which, in my experience, is rarely an issue) by running slightly longer trains (I've always liked the idea of a 2-car Desiro but maybe that's a bit impractical).