northwichcat
Veteran Member
That hasn't existed as a standard pattern services since Dec 2008. They only go as far as Hazel Grove, except for some peak time extensions to Buxton.
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Northern timetable plan for May 2018
- Thread starter Philip
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That hasn't existed as a standard pattern services since Dec 2008. They only go as far as Hazel Grove, except for some peak time extensions to Buxton.
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
The Scotrail rolling stock changes are primarily to add better and more carriages to services in Scotland. Releasing units will only start when they have significantly more carriages in revenue earning service, allowing for potential teething problems with new/different trains.
absolutelymilk
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If there is a big increase in demand once electric services start, how many tph could the Manchester Victoria-Preston corridor theoretically support with the current infrastructure?
thealexweb
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The old Manchester - Bolton - Preston infrastructure used to support up to 5tph in the late 00's (2x Blackpool North, 1x Cumbria, 1x Scotland and 1x Preston). It has never been clarified what the improved infrastrucure unlocks in terms of spare paths, but one could assume there is still at least one path per hour unused.
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
With Bolton to Manchester it would make more sense to go for longer trains than more trains given there's already a very high frequency and very few services run as more than 4 cars, when the infrastructure supports 6 x 23m.
Halish Railway
Established Member
The flex's will be 4 car, the Manchester Victoria to Preston will be a 319 and there will be a couple of 6 car 331's. The only 2 car trains that will remain will be the half-hourly Blackburn/Clitheroe trains. In all it is looking pretty good for Bolton!
northernchris
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Will the Leeds-Manchester Airport and Leeds-Chester be operated exclusively by 158s?
Halish Railway
Established Member
1. Let's hope so
2. 170's might work some of those services
3. The most likely event is that it will be decided by Northern's on the day random unit Generator
northernchris
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That's what I feared! Can imagine a solo 142 turning up on some workings
Halish Railway
Established Member
That may be something that happens as the owners of the Sprinters will have to take their trains out of service for PRM mods that if are done at current rates, won't be done by the 2020 deadline. Link to appropriate thread - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-unit-refurbishments.128846/
Can anyone clarify the Crewe services, and whether late night/Sunday services will operate from Crewe to Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly or beyond. Its one of the main things needed to improve Crewe's rail links. Also, will Styal be served by every train to Crewe and Manchester Airport?
All provisional but
Monday to Saturday daytime will see
1 tph Man Picc to Crewe via Stockport all stops except Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme.
1tph Wigan NW/Southport to Alderley Edge via Bolton and Stockport all stops between Manchester and Alderley except Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme.
1tph Liverpool to Crewe via Chat Moss and Styal. All stops except Chelford and Goostrey.
Evenings and Sundays
1tph Man Picc to Crewe via Stockport all stops except HTC and LVM.
1tph Liverpool to Wilmslow via Chat Moss and Styal.
All trains via Styal call at Manchester Airport and Styal.
The only real benefit for Crewe is an increase to an hourly stopping Sunday service to Manchester via Stockport from the currently 2 hourly service.
Viscount702
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How many tph will stop at HTC and which ones.
I suspect the unit diagrams will inter-work on these (as they do now), to save one service have a long dwell time at Crewe. They'll be a mixture of 319 / 323 from May.
Philip
On Moderation
Are 323s cleared or going to be cleared to run to Liverpool? I'd have thought this would need to be so if interworking is going to happen?
Its a shame evenings and Sunday services from Liverpool won't be coming to Crewe. Access to Manchester Airport from the south is poor, and this could have addressed this issue. I think this something Cheshire East and Manchester Airport should lobby for.
323 workings to Liverpool unlikely anyhow. All Crewe services expected to be 319s.
323s certainly were cleared for Liverpool, they have worked they Liverpool to Birmingham New Street services under Central Trains, and I believe had done the same service under London Midland.
Sam
The Crewe to Liverpool via Manchester airport service. Can anyone confirm is this for certain now and will definitely run May?
And what will the stopping pattern be?
Is there a rough journey time available end to end? And will there be a late last working Liverpool bound?
And will it be class 323s?
And what will the stopping pattern be?
Is there a rough journey time available end to end? And will there be a late last working Liverpool bound?
And will it be class 323s?
From the draft consultation:
Liverpool - Crewe via Airport:
LIV xx29, MCO xx25, MAN xx30, MIA xx05, CRE xx42
CRE xx18, MIA xx59, MAN xx22, MCO xx26, LIV xx24
Picc - Crewe via Stockport:
MAN xx01, CRE xx59
CRE xx48, MAN xx39
By looking at the Crewe arrival and departure timings, it's easy to presume that the via Airport and via Stockport services will interwork as they currently do (i.e. outward one way / return the other). Highly unlikely for two Northern services to both be sat at Crewe at the same time.
darloscott
Member
If you kept them separate you'd need 5 units to work Liverpool-Crewe & return and 3 units to work Manchester-Crewe & return however interworking the two gets this down to just 7 required in total.
Loop & Link
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Won’t be 323’s on the route (Lime St-Crewe) Lime St/Wigan/Man Vic crew don’t sign them.
1) nothing's ever definite on the railway. Whilst this routes fully electric, further delays on electrification or stock cascades may mean a further delay to new timetable implementation.
2)all stops except Chelford and Goostrey
3)2hrs 5mins to 2 hrs 10min
4)Last trains to Lime St 18.18 from Crewe and 22.43 from Wilmslow (services start from Wilmslow in an evening).
5) no they'll be 319's
There will be plenty of changes to the traction and routes signed by different depots anyhow so this wouldn't be a great barrier. It's likely at least some of Blackpool, Buxton, Wigan or Man Vic crews will need to sign them as they'll probably be operating Blackpool to Macclesfield.
Philip
On Moderation
Is it definite then that 319s will replace 323s on all Crewe services? I thought Northern didn't want to do this because of the inferior acceleration of 319s compared to 323s?
I'm a bit surprised too to read that some of these 323s leaving the Crewe line might transfer to Blackpool to Macclesfield services.
I'm a bit surprised too to read that some of these 323s leaving the Crewe line might transfer to Blackpool to Macclesfield services.
Is this a revival of the earlier suggestion of a 2x323 PIXC-buster capability to relieve peak hour pressure in Piccadilly - Chorley corridor?
I have it on good authority that you'll see 323s spreading their wings to Preston, Blackpool and Liverpool from May.
You'll see 319s inter-mingled on Crewe and Hadfield services.
Stoke will remain solely 323.
All of this of course hinges on completion of electrification and success of the flex project...
Jamesrob637
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I remain optimistic but Manchester to Bolton is making VERY slow progress as per a run up to Horwich Parkway this afternoon !
Have just joined so please forgive me if the situation has changed in respect of the May 2018 Buxton Line timetable. From the posts I gather that the intention is to withdraw the Disley stop in off peak Buxton trains, making this trip impossible after 150 years except by bus of a 30 minute wait at New Mills. The quoted reason is a faster journey time to Buxton, although this reads as not credible with stops at Heaton Chapel,mLevenshukme, Davenport and Woodsmore in one direction? Surely not correct. Commentary on this is sparse so is this a case of putting this line on the graph last. Hoping I have got this wrong?
Y
U had it correct for the provisional timetables however it is likely to be altered as the provisional timetable didn't have the 4tph to Hazel Grove required in the franchise spec and 2tph to Buxton rather than a New Mills Newtown terminator is also being looked at.
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