Northern timetable plan for May 2018

[northwichcat]

Not entirely sure what happened to the turnback plan but as no more was ever heard of it...

What happened was the HLOS included a plan for Northern to get 130 new diesel vehicles, TPE to get 40 new diesel vehicles - both expected to be a variant of Turbostar, plus Northern to get a large number of new EMUs (I forget the exact number) - enough to replace the 323s and 321s, as well as allow for extra units for both the North West and Yorkshire, this was on top of Northern getting cascaded 150s from LM. (FGW were also due to get both brand new DMUs and cascaded 150s.) What happened then is there was a change in the Transport Minister, who realised huge numbers of 319s would be sitting around doing nothing if the Thameslink project went ahead, so new rolling stock was scrapped in favour of electrification and cascades (even TPE were originally going to get cascaded EMUs under the new plan not brand new.) Yorkshire did manage to get the 5 x 322s from Scotrail in lieu of new EMUs but obviously as they remained as 4 car sets that didn't allow the proposed 6 car EMU formations.

 

[Bantamzen]

What happened was the HLOS included a plan for Northern to get 130 new diesel vehicles, TPE to get 40 new diesel vehicles - both expected to be a variant of Turbostar, plus Northern to get a large number of new EMUs (I forget the exact number) - enough to replace the 323s and 321s, as well as allow for extra units for both the North West and Yorkshire, this was on top of Northern getting cascaded 150s from LM. (FGW were also due to get both brand new DMUs and cascaded 150s.) What happened then is there was a change in the Transport Minister, who realised huge numbers of 319s would be sitting around doing nothing if the Thameslink project went ahead, so new rolling stock was scrapped in favour of electrification and cascades (even TPE were originally going to get cascaded EMUs under the new plan not brand new.) Yorkshire did manage to get the 5 x 322s from Scotrail in lieu of new EMUs but obviously as they remained as 4 car sets that didn't allow the proposed 6 car EMU formations.

And then electrification was scaled back as bi-modes became a thing. You've just got to love the UK Civil Service thought processes and joined-up thinking....

 

[northwichcat]

And then electrification was scaled back as bi-modes became a thing. You've just got to love the UK Civil Service thought processes and joined-up thinking....

What it actually needed was a mix of the two ideas and the North and South getting new trains for immediate extra capacity (alongside cascaded 150s), with cascaded 319s replacing the oldest EMUs on the network like 313s and 315s once the new Thameslink trains were in service. Then electrification and suitable EMUs (new or cascaded depending on availability) to directly/indirectly replace the Pacers and 150s. While Lord Adonis had a valid point about electrification, Network Rail were never able to deliver it in a fast enough timescale given how desperately extra capacity was needed on the network.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The DfT also baulked at the cost of a small-ish order for DMUs the manufacturers didn't want to build.
Things are a bit different now CAF and Stadler are on the scene, and electrification has gone up in smoke.

 

[ASharpe]

However it is worth bearing in mind that Leeds-Shipley-Bradford will be gaining additional VTECs (or whoever has the franchise / contract), and hopefully at least one will be pathed during the peaks which is guaranteed to attract quite a lot of passengers to at least Shipley.

I wonder if these trains needing to use platform 3 will be a problem. I wouldn't be surprised if they run fast from Leeds to Bradford in the same way the evening Skipton train does.

 

[30907]

I wonder if these trains needing to use platform 3 will be a problem. I wouldn't be surprised if they run fast from Leeds to Bradford in the same way the evening Skipton train does.

Platform 3 isnt so intensively used that a Bradford bound train can't use it.
The down Skipton is non stopping for a different reason, to do with doors and platform length..

 

[Bantamzen]

I wonder if these trains needing to use platform 3 will be a problem. I wouldn't be surprised if they run fast from Leeds to Bradford in the same way the evening Skipton train does.

Platform 3 isnt so intensively used that a Bradford bound train can't use it.
The down Skipton is non stopping for a different reason, to do with doors and platform length..

At the moment in most hours there is a reasonable enough gap between the Leeds bound (xx:08, xx:38) & Ilkley bound (xx:23, xx:53) to allow a VTEC to use P3 bi-directionally, especially as they will never conflict each other being every 2 hours. So it shouldn't be a problem to path them in, although in all honesty of all the platforms at Shipley P4 is the least difficult and probable the least expensive to extend to, remove the need altogether. The subway urgently needs work though, but there are now plans to build new homes on the land behind P4 which may include a new entrance to the station from there which might help fund improvements (Northern might even be able to sneak in the cost of a P4 extension!).

 

[Halish Railway]

It looks like the Blackpool to York service has been cut back to go from Preston to Leeds - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y23027/2018/05/21/advanced

 

[Deerfold]

It looks like the Blackpool to York service has been cut back to go from Preston to Leeds - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y23027/2018/05/21/advanced

Perhaps, but I'd be wary of extrapolating from 1 train in 1 direction.

 

[stu99]

Well the tyne valley services are up on RTT for may now. I think the majority of them should be there now for Northern.
Hexham Services (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/HEX/2018/05/21/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt )

 

[swt_passenger]

Well the tyne valley services are up on RTT for may now. I think the majority of them should be there now for Northern.
Hexham Services (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/HEX/2018/05/21/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt )

Interesting that one of those shared Scotrail/Northern trains will run through to Morpeth:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G26340/2018/05/21/advanced

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Northern's new services on the Lime St-Warrington Central-Manchester Airport route are on RTT (xx16 from Liverpool, xx50 from the Airport) with calls at Birchwood and Mauldeth Road.
However, the long Lime St closure from June 2 is not shown yet (nor for the other operators).
Also Manchester-Northwich-Chester is in.
There are some Ellesmere Port shuttles shown, with an early Liverpool-Warrington-Ellesmere Port and a mid-evening 1910 Ellesmere Port-Warrington-Manchester Victoria.
Liverpool-Blackpool services from May 20 are shown as class 319, as are Manchester Airport-Blackpool via Golborne (calling at Wigan and Leyland before Preston).

 

[stu99]

Interesting that one of those shared Scotrail/Northern trains will run through to Morpeth:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G26340/2018/05/21/advanced

Yes it is, that's been there a fair while, there was a rumour that Scotrail wanted to stop these type of services.

 

[John C]

Interesting that one of those shared Scotrail/Northern trains will run through to Morpeth:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G26340/2018/05/21/advanced

Looks like this one then runs back to Carlisle as 2N37 21:00 Morpeth to Carlisle

 

[Mathew S]

Wigan timetables seem to be up. Happy days from my point of view, and seems much as expected
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...2/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=NT

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes it is, that's been there a fair while, there was a rumour that Scotrail wanted to stop these type of services.

Would have been a bit of a coup if Northern had taken it to Chathill...

 

[Halish Railway]

The 08:32 Leeds to Bradford Forster Square express has been binned. Shame as there were quite a few Shipley to Bradford commuters who used that service.

 

[SeanM1997]

At Crewe:
- xx:16 (ish) Monday to Saturday: Crewe-Manchester Airport-Manchester Piccadilly extends to Liverpool Lime Street between 0616 and 1616. All the services call at Styal. 1717 and 1817 terminates at Manchester Piccadilly
- xx:42 (ish) Monday to Saturday: Manchester Piccadilly-Manchester Airport-Crewe comes from Liverpool Lime Street between 0742 and 1843 (Crewe arrival times). 1943 arrivals comes from Manchester Piccadilly
- xx:48 (ish) Monday to Sunday: Crewe-Stockport-Manchester Piccadilly. Now runs every day
- xx:00 (ish) Monday to Sunday: Manchester Piccadilly-Stockport-Crewe. Now runs every day

Overall, this does provide better timings from Sandbach, Holmes Chapel and Alderley Edge between them and Crewe/Manchester

 

[John C]

It looks like the Blackpool to York service has been cut back to go from Preston to Leeds - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y23027/2018/05/21/advanced

It looks like the Leeds-York section is now covered by the :58 departures from Manchester Victoria which then return from York-Leeds as the :15 departures for Huddersfield via Bradford

Interesting in the new timetable on RTT is Sunday morning at Bradford Interchange with 2 Manchester Victoria services within 5 minutes of each other 1M01 at 8:37 and 1J71 at 8:42 only difference I can see in stopping pattern along the Calder valley is 1J71 calls at Sowerby Bridge and Mytholmroyd.

 

[agbrs_Jack]

Northern have not made any positive changes to Congleton's Sunday service, instead they've opted to stop 4 of 5 Manchester bound services at HTC and LVM which increases journey time, we're better off as we are thanks...

 

[Thomas6187]

Only 3 northern services over the chord per weekday. Departing Piccadilly at 05:51(Airport-Buckshaw), 08:57(Buxton-Victoria) and 23:43(Wilmslow-Victoria). The 08:57 doesn't run Saturdays

 

[cuccir]

The extensions of the morning Saltburn/Middlesbrough - Darlington - Newcastle services to Carlisle are now back in the timetable. Does anyone know when there were last (normal, not diversions) through services to the Tyne Valley Line from the ECML in County Durham (Darlo, Durham)?

 

[Starmill]

Some of the calling patterns for the Styal line are truly bizarre!

Manchester Airport
Heald Green
-
East Didsbury
-
-
Manchester Piccadilly

Manchester Airport
Heald Green
Gatley
-
Burnage
-
Manchester Piccadilly

Manchester Airport
-
-
-
-
Mauldeth Road
Manchester Piccadilly

I have never seen anything quite like that before.

 

[agbrs_Jack]

Some of the calling patterns for the Styal line are truly bizarre!

I would've thought East Didsbury would be a primary stop for that route, clearly not.
I'm still wondering why Congleton can't have hourly SOT-MAN on Sundays, I've not been given a valid reason by any source yet!

 

[Starmill]

Northern have not made any positive changes to Congleton's Sunday service, instead they've opted to stop 4 of 5 Manchester bound services at HTC and LVM which increases journey time, we're better off as we are thanks...

That's a pretty minor reduction in service level compared to some...

I would've thought East Didsbury would be a primary stop for that route, clearly not.

There's an ATW service that calls there, although it's just 5 minutes behind the other train and is not confirmed as continuing beyond the end of the ATW franchise.

 

[agbrs_Jack]

That's a pretty minor reduction in service level compared to some...

Like? We were promised hourly on Sundays as a franchise commitment, MAN is open, why does BON-PRE affect SOT-MAN?
It's not really a reduction though, they've not changed anything other than making it 10 mins slower.

 

[Starmill]

It's not really a reduction though, they've not changed anything other than making it 10 mins slower.

Exactly.

 

[agbrs_Jack]

Exactly.

But it needs an increase, not a reduction, and I see no reason why it hasn't been increased.

 

[js1000]

Commuter passengers between Piccadilly & the Airport are not going to happy. I can see that timetable changing again in December or next May when Northern see the drop off in passenger numbers and 'bread and butter' revenue.

Moving from xx:00/xx:30 to xx:00/xx:10 and removing potential intermediary stops is a kick in the teeth. It's a downgrade - not an upgrade.

 

[YorkshireBear]

But it needs an increase, not a reduction, and I see no reason why it hasn't been increased.

Its to do with through workings and stock availability i believe. Not justifying just giving you a reason.