Northern Ticket Machines

[SuspectUsual]

Allow me to rant about this. The Northern Railway app is ill thought through. When I buy a ticket with bank card that need an authorisation (open the bank app and approve the payment), the payment process is cancelled as you 'quits' the transaction screen. So you can't buy a ticket with their app unless you have more than one phones.

Well I know I can use Trainline or buy from other operators, but this is just frustrating.

That is staggeringly bad. Even for Northern

 

[northernman]

Any chance you can fix the new(ish) step that forces the purchaser to confirm they’ll be on the next train to depart? If you’re not - eg if it’s leaving in five minutes and you won’t get to the platform in time - the only option is to cancel the transaction which seems obtuse in the extreme

Yes we are changing that

 

[skyhigh]

Allow me to rant about this. The Northern Railway app is ill thought through. When I buy a ticket with bank card that need an authorisation (open the bank app and approve the payment), the payment process is cancelled as you 'quits' the transaction screen. So you can't buy a ticket with their app unless you have more than one phones.

It works fine for me?

 

[Halwynd]

Just by way of update... I thought I'd try again this morning and was able to purchase a ticket within seconds using Contactless. So it does seem as if there was a problem accepting payments - or at least card payments.

If 'northernman' was responsible for fixing it, I'm very grateful - thank you.

 

[syorksdeano]

I reported an error on the website mo this ago that still isn't rectified.

Can anyone else spot the problem?

I know the area can be rough, but if it has a ticket machine either I've walked passed it or it's in someone's house

 

[XAM2175]

I reported an error on the website mo this ago that still isn't rectified.

Can anyone else spot the problem?

I know the area can be rough, but if it has a ticket machine either I've walked passed it or it's in someone's house

Does the "X" not indicate the absence of the relevant facility?

 

[Trainrave]

Slightly off topic - But has any driver almost had a brown trouser moment catching a glimpse of a Red light bar at the top of one of these machines when they weren’t expecting it?

Staggering how they are allowed to show Red/Green light bars on platform machines at all…

 

[syorksdeano]

Does the "X" not indicate the absence of the relevant facility?

It does but at the top of the screenshot it states one of the improvements made to the station is that it has a ticket machine.

Truth is it doesn't

 

[XAM2175]

It does but at the top of the screenshot it states one of the improvements made to the station is that it has a ticket machine.

Truth is it doesn't

Oh now I see sorry, I must have just passed over it because I read the CCTV and cab booking points.

 

[josh-j]

E-tickets (which can be printed out at home if you wish) are available for most journeys.

Although often (depending on the route and time, I would imagine) not available if they decide for whatever reason to make them "sold out". I assume its for demand management but seeing as you can just buy an anytime ticket and use it immediately this has never made sense to me and I'm sure some people find it confusing or annoying. Recently had to help somebody who had turned up to the station (unstaffed) but then didn't know if trains were running because they were all showing as unavailable to buy on the Trainline app. There was a single TVM at the station but it is not even visible unless you approach the station from the right direction, so she thought she would be able to buy a ticket on the train. I think if nobody else was there she would have ended up getting on the train without a ticket because she thought there was no machine and couldn't buy tickets using the app. Way too much unnecessary complexity and confusion there for people who aren't regular travellers.

Its off topic I suppose but I really wish you could just buy an anytime or off peak ticket without having to pick a time - that goes for Trainline and the TOC apps - especially as e-tickets are so popular now.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Its off topic I suppose but I really wish you could just buy an anytime or off peak ticket without having to pick a time - that goes for Trainline and the TOC apps - especially as e-tickets are so popular now.

You’ll love the MixingDesk layout then!

 

[josh-j]

You’ll love the MixingDesk layout then!

Oh, that certainly does the business - now it just needs to be put into the app!

 

[Audioguy]

Yes we are changing that

My daughter came up against something like this at the weekend. She got to Preston station late for her train but the train was even later (10 minutes late in the end). She worries if she doesnt have a ticket but the app insisted that she could not buy a ticket for the train because it was after the train's departure time. It sounded like the app wanted her to choose which train she was using even though it was the middle of the day and the applicable tickets are all open. She rang me in a panic because she did not want to have to deal with problems with the guard and I told her to try to buy a ticket for the next train. That seemed to work. Is there really no way to just buy an open single on the app?

 

[Watershed]

My daughter came up against something like this at the weekend. She got to Preston station late for her train but the train was even later (10 minutes late in the end). She worries if she doesnt have a ticket but the app insisted that she could not buy a ticket for the train because it was after the train's departure time. It sounded like the app wanted her to choose which train she was using even though it was the middle of the day and the applicable tickets are all open. She rang me in a panic because she did not want to have to deal with problems with the guard and I told her to try to buy a ticket for the next train. That seemed to work. Is there really no way to just buy an open single on the app?

Almost all booking sites/apps require to specify the trains you want to take - at least on your "outward" leg - before they'll let you buy a ticket. MixingDeck is the honourable exception to the rule, as you can simply select a ticket type. However you still need there to be some itineraries generated for this to work, so it's not a solution if the last departure of the day has gone...

 

[Audioguy]

Almost all booking sites/apps require to specify the trains you want to take - at least on your "outward" leg - before they'll let you buy a ticket. MixingDeck is the honourable exception to the rule, as you can simply select a ticket type. However you still need there to be some itineraries generated for this to work, so it's not a solution if the last departure of the day has gone...

But presumably all of the systems <assume> that if the time of the last train has past you can't buy a ticket even if it is running late? Would be a good reason to just get on the train and try to buy a ticket from the guard.

 

[Halwynd]

Northern Ticket Machines: Part 2

I was considering travelling from Gathurst to Warrington yesterday. Gathurst to Wigan Wallgate with Northern is 5 minutes travelling time. Wigan to Warrington with Avanti is 10 minutes. An Off Peak Day Return at £9.80 was my required ticket. What could go wrong?

I check Journeycheck to see whether the TVM at Gathurst is working. Oh no: "Passenger who require purchasing tickets from the ticket vending machine on platform 1, please be advised we have received reports of the machine not printing travel tickets. Please purchase a ticket via your mobile, or alternatively liaise with the train guard before boarding the train to be issued a ticket." It seems it hasn't been working - again - since last Thursday, and there's a few at other Northern unstaffed stations out of action too.

So, as the railway and others recommend, I tried to book an e-Ticket via the Northern website - https://www.buytickets.northernrailway.co.uk. All I got was a message saying 'No tickets available - please refine your search'. Is this because Avanti no longer allow passengers to buy non-Advance tickets without a reservation I wonder? I tried to 'refine my search' several times without success. On the first attempt I received the message: "You don't have permission to access "http://www.buytickets.northernrailway.co.uk/my-account/login" on this server. Carrying out a little research online, it seems that Northern was trying to re-direct me to an unsecure version of its website (http rather than https) and Google Chrome flagged it up. The only way I could start again was to clear the Northern site cookies, but, ultimately, no joy.

I then thought I'd try Trainsplit. At first I received a message saying "Sorry, these journeys aren't yet open for booking". After fiddling around a little, I managed to get other options which included travelling from Gathurst to Salford Crescent, from there to Manchester Oxford Road, and then to Warrington Central. Just under 2 hours and at a cost of £16.80. I think there was another option travelling via Manchester Victoria for £17 something. No thanks, but at least they offered an alternative.

I don't know whether the Avanti website would have sold me a ticket, but it is so slow and awful to use by this time I didn't have the will to even try. I suspect it would have been 'computer says no' here too.

After almost an hour of faffing about I gave up, got in the car, and drove to Warrington. And that is what I shall do next time too.

I accept that this is largely because my home station is unstaffed - as most are these days - and that if I had been boarding at a station with a Booking Office I would probably not have had a problem, but then the railway wants to get rid of those doesn't it? Or is it down to Avanti who, unilaterally, seem to have decided that walk-up tickets can no longer be purchased without a reservation, and that if the trains are fully booked, as seems to be the case all too often these days, you ain't travelling?

Successful retail businesses make it, or ought to make it, as easy as possible for as many people as possible to buy their products or services. I've been travelling by train for over 40 years. It has had its ups and downs during this time, but, with the ever overhanging threat of Penalty Fares, combined with such difficulties in buying a ticket and travelling on even the simplest of journeys, I've never known it to feel as 'anti-passenger' as it does today.

 

[skyhigh]

After almost an hour of faffing about I gave up, got in the car, and drove to Warrington. And that is what I shall do next time too.

Or you could have just spoken to the guard when boarding as suggested by Journey Check?

 

[Halwynd]

Or you could have just spoken to the guard when boarding as suggested by Journey Check?

The railway recommends that I purchase an e-Ticket - which is what I attempted to do. It was only after this frustrating process that I decided to give up and drive. Past experience tells me that some guards will sell you a ticket, others will say 'buy at Wigan' because of the very short journey time. If I happen upon a guard who says the latter, and then the ticket inspectors at Wigan Wallgate decide they are not having it I fall into a possible Penalty Fare situation. What makes such a problem slightly more possible is that Gathurst is the last station before Wigan Wallgate and I was once given the third degree by a ticket inspector who insinuated that I might have travelled from a station earlier in its journey. I was lucky that I had my driving licence on me, which has my address printed on it. We have all read on this forum some of the sorry tales from those who have become 'victims' through no fault of their own, and my post was just to illustrate the difficulties I encountered yesterday when, put simply, I was trying to give the railway my money.

 

[OscarH]

Or is it down to Avanti who, unilaterally, seem to have decided that walk-up tickets can no longer be purchased without a reservation, and that if the trains are fully booked, as seems to be the case all too often these days, you ain't travelling?

This is entirely a mess of Avanti's doing, marking their services as mandatory reservations. Its an unfortunate thing that started during COVID and has been allowed to continue causing an utter mess. A booking office would have helped you here, as they can sell tickets without an itinerary, and an old fashioned TVM too (not sure about the new journey planning ones), though I think the sensible solution would be for the industry to crack down on TOC's abusing the data and setting mandatory reservations when the services aren't (sadly you're more likely to see pigs fly than see TOC data properly regulated)

 

[Halwynd]

This is entirely a mess of Avanti's doing, marking their services as mandatory reservations. Its an unfortunate thing that started during COVID and has been allowed to continue causing an utter mess. A booking office would have helped you here, as they can sell tickets without an itinerary, and an old fashioned TVM too (not sure about the new journey planning ones), though I think the sensible solution would be for the industry to crack down on TOC's abusing the data and setting mandatory reservations when the services aren't (sadly you're more likely to see pigs fly than see TOC data properly regulated)

Thanks for your comments. I was left scratching my head a bit at first, but then it clicked, having read somewhere about Avanti's reservations policy, that I realised it must still be ongoing. I prefer walk-up tickets because they give some flexibility should the service fall down, and living in an area serviced by Avanti, TPE and Northern (with my station operating half its service with Class 769 units) I'm sure you'll understand why!

 

[SouthernR]

I'm not a frequent Northern traveller, but I've never succeeded in buying a Northern ticket from a machine, usually giving up due to lack of time. The furthest I've got is to insert my card to try to pay. (I hadn't noticed that contactless readers were fitted.)
I often struggle with touch screens, either with gauging the sensitivity or the position of keys (parallax error).
The user interface needs to be very clear to cater for occasional users, especially those who've never heard of Promise to Pay, etc.
Roll on Tap In / Tap Out , assuming it can be made to work!

 

[merry]

Whilst appreciating how frustrating TVMs cab be, especially in "foreign" territory, I'd like to give a positive report for a change
2 weeks ago, on holiday in Sussex, we had a day out in London from Haywards Heath. Off peak start (perhaps 0945), having found the various TOC apps entirely inconsistent and unfathonable in pricing (I've seen the discussions on that subject elsewhere...), decided to use the TVM on arrival.
Once i chose my tickets (2x offpk rtn Travelcard & 1x child), the machine proactively offered advice that there was a cheaper option (Groupsave). Naturally, i took that option. Not a bad interface either for such a small display.
Overall a good experience. What a shame not everyone has that.

Only annoyance was that we had to do the young persons railcard separately, and that there are so many very similar ticket prices with subtly different (and in many cases near unenforceable) restrictions, at least on that route.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The trouble with e-tickets and print at home tickets is the fact that you (usually) can't use them if your journey involves changing TOC. The lack of a national e-ticketing system is a b****y disgrace.

 

[_toommm_]

The trouble with e-tickets and print at home tickets is the fact that you (usually) can't use them if your journey involves changing TOC. The lack of a national e-ticketing system is a b****y disgrace.

Of course you can. As long as the fare setter for that particular route has enabled e-tickets, then you absolutely can.

 

[alistairlees]

Whilst appreciating how frustrating TVMs cab be, especially in "foreign" territory, I'd like to give a positive report for a change
2 weeks ago, on holiday in Sussex, we had a day out in London from Haywards Heath. Off peak start (perhaps 0945), having found the various TOC apps entirely inconsistent and unfathonable in pricing (I've seen the discussions on that subject elsewhere...), decided to use the TVM on arrival.
Once i chose my tickets (2x offpk rtn Travelcard & 1x child), the machine proactively offered advice that there was a cheaper option (Groupsave). Naturally, i took that option. Not a bad interface either for such a small display.
Overall a good experience. What a shame not everyone has that.

Only annoyance was that we had to do the young persons railcard separately, and that there are so many very similar ticket prices with subtly different (and in many cases near unenforceable) restrictions, at least on that route.

How much did you end up paying?

 

[Watershed]

The trouble with e-tickets and print at home tickets is the fact that you (usually) can't use them if your journey involves changing TOC. The lack of a national e-ticketing system is a b****y disgrace.

It's not to do with whether multiple TOCs are involved, but whether one of the TOCs you're entitled to use with the ticket is one that doesn't like e-tickets. Such as Southeastern (though they have improved markedly in recent months), Merseyrail, ScotRail or TfW.

 

[Halwynd]

I decided to try Northern from Gathurst again today. Ticket machine not working yet again. Out of four attempts I've made this year it has worked just once. More fool me for trying to use the railway. Someone at Northern Trains Head Office needs a kick up the ar**.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I decided to try Northern from Gathurst again today. Ticket machine not working yet again. Out of four attempts I've made this year it has worked just once. More fool me for trying to use the railway. Someone at Northern Trains Head Office needs a kick up the ar**.

Indeed. Presume best advice is to take a photo of the faulty machine to prove it's not working, then endeavour to purchase your ticket at the soonest opportunity thereafter. And maybe notify Northern on 0344 811 5111.

Can't exactly use the ticket office instead at Gathurst, as there isn't one, is there?

 

[Halwynd]

Indeed. Presume best advice is to take a photo of the faulty machine to prove it's not working, then endeavour to purchase your ticket at the soonest opportunity thereafter. And maybe notify Northern on 0344 811 5111.

Can't exactly use the ticket office instead at Gathurst, as there isn't one, is there?

Thanks for that Mcr Warrior - no, there isn't a ticket office at Gathurst.

Unfortunately I didn't take my phone or camera with me - but you are right, we have arrived at this ridiculous situation where passengers probably need to take photographs to prove their case. Alas, even if I had been carrying my phone a picture would probably have been useless as it was the Chip & PIN pad and Contactless sensor that were not responsive. For all intents and purposes the machine otherwise looks as if it is working. I did look at the coloured bar at the top of the machine - on the advice of another RailUK Forums member - and it was lit up green. I used the same payment card an hour or so later in a supermarket and it worked fine. You would have thought that in this day and age, technologically, these machines would have some sort of self fault reporting to Head Office.

The second time this happened I sent an email to Northern customer services notifying them of the situation but heard nothing. I'm afraid I just can't be bothered again. If the railway doesn't want my money, fair enough. As I think I said earlier in this thread, I won't run the risk of a fine in a Penalty Fare area so never board without a ticket and today, being a nice sunny day, I walked instead - but I'm pretty knackered now! With the added problems of service cancellations and reliability issues I think I'm just going to give up on the railways for a while until someone, hopefully, gets a grip.

 

[Trainbike46]

Thanks for that Mcr Warrior - no, there isn't a ticket office at Gathurst.

Unfortunately I didn't take my phone or camera with me - but you are right, we have arrived at this ridiculous situation where passengers probably need to take photographs to prove their case. Alas, even if I had been carrying my phone a picture would probably have been useless as it was the Chip & PIN pad and Contactless sensor that were not responsive. For all intents and purposes the machine otherwise looks as if it is working. I did look at the coloured bar at the top of the machine - on the advice of another RailUK Forums member - and it was lit up green. I used the same payment card an hour or so later in a supermarket and it worked fine. You would have thought that in this day and age, technologically, these machines would have some sort of self fault reporting to Head Office.

The easiest solution may then be to obtain a promise to pay notice from the ticket machine and pay in cash on the train, or at the destination station ticket office, or where you change trains.

I know the machine should just work, but if it doesn't that may be a solution for you to make the journey without the risk of getting a penalty fare.