Northern Tender for up to 450 units

[Snow1964]

Yes, 2028 suggests that they're expecting to make the award probably in 2024 maybe early 2025. So I think the only news we're likely to get the next twelve months or so is a shortlist.

The DfT procurement letter (which came out early 2024, when there was all the media attention regarding possibly closing Derby, but can't currently find) indicated one of the orders would likely be awarded in November (brought forward from early 2025)

The latest DfT procurement spreadsheet has a last working day in November 2024 date too. We are now in November, so is it case of watch this space, or another false expectation regarding pending award.

 

[Meerkat]

I'm on a packed two-car 150 running into Manchester now.

Each middle seat of the three is empty, and the second of the two next to me is empty. The vestibules are packed, the gangway less so as it's so tight. Everyone's knees are interlocked.

3+2 is a total fugazi. Nobody uses the third seat. Make it more comfortable for those seated and stood by installing fewer seats! And two carriage units should be consigned to history in terms of new orders.

If northerners dont want to sit next to each other like in the south east that can’t really be blamed on the railway.
the good thing about 3+2 is when It’s fairly crowded sitting 2 on a 3 is much nicer than 2 on a 2

 

[Bletchleyite]

If northerners dont want to sit next to each other like in the south east that can’t really be blamed on the railway.

Southerners usually don't use the middle seat on 3+2 either. It's not a sensible layout. Narrow 2+2 as per the 730s works much better on very crowded trains. Indeed, aside from level boarding or the lack thereof, the 730s are very competent indeed at their Birmingham local role.

 

[HSTEd]

Given the number of trains where I see a 2+2 layout forcing people half into the aisles, I am not convinced 2+3 is at all sensible, unless we magically get Shinkansen train widths! (And even then, more gangway space is likely more useful).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given the number of trains where I see a 2+2 layout forcing people half into the aisles, I am not convinced 2+3 is at all sensible, unless we magically get Shinkansen train widths! (And even then, more gangway space is likely more useful).

The very wide gangway is one reason the 730 (and 700) works so well with high loadings. It also has the side benefit that you can get anywhere on the train in a wheelchair (other than past the toilet, which isn't really solveable).

 

[The exile]

I suspect that under “normal” busy conditions, 3+2 actually reduces overall capacity by reducing standing space.

 

[J-2739]

Southerners usually don't use the middle seat on 3+2 either. It's not a sensible layout. Narrow 2+2 as per the 730s works much better on very crowded trains. Indeed, aside from level boarding or the lack thereof, the 730s are very competent indeed at their Birmingham local role.

Push comes to shove, people will use the middle seat (from my travels on Southeastern Networkers), although a 2+2 configuration remains the best for standing capacity, especially with - as you say - the 730's layout.

 

[800001]

Push comes to shove, people will use the middle seat (from my travels on Southeastern Networkers), although a 2+2 configuration remains the best for standing capacity, especially with - as you say - the 730's layout.

Look at a 720 leave Stratford heading east, all middle seats taken.

 

[En]

I suspect that under “normal” busy conditions, 3+2 actually reduces overall capacity by reducing standing space.

indeed
you only need ot look at the tube and LO stock with it;s longitudinal seating even for journeys that may end up as 45 minutes

 

[J-2739]

Look at a 720 leave Stratford heading east, all middle seats taken.

That's what I'm talking about; during less busy times, people usually leave a seat between themselves (except for friends and family) but no way during the peak. Who is giving up a seat like that!?

Though I also don't think the new Northern units should have 3+2 seating, but something like the 700s (but with nicer seating).

 

[Meerkat]

Southerners usually don't use the middle seat on 3+2 either. It's not a sensible layout. Narrow 2+2 as per the 730s works much better on very crowded trains. Indeed, aside from level boarding or the lack thereof, the 730s are very competent indeed at their Birmingham local role.

They do on SWR from my experience. And fairly assertively too when people are trying to defend them!

 

[bluelagoon8951]

apparently there's a big update today about this, anyone in the loop able to fill in the details?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

apparently there's a big update today about this, anyone in the loop able to fill in the details?

There's been a lot of discussion about it on https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-units-for-northern-shortlist-of-manufacturers.280223/ since Yesterday, I think the biggest piece of news is that

the shortlist is confirmed as:
Alstom, CAF, Hitachi, Siemens, Stadler

And Northern have put up a webpage with more https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/about-us/newtrains

 

[ainsworth74]

See this thread here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-units-for-northern-shortlist-of-manufacturers.280223/