Northern Station Improvements & New Ticket Machines

[fishtastic]

Yes, they will (when they can say "but there was an opportunity to buy a ticket at your origin station"). Whilst I don't support much of the modern way of doing things, fare evasion in any form is a crime and always has been.

I suspect if they start enforcing that people will start walking across the tracks, it's a few minutes walk from one side to the other.

 

[Intercity 225]

I suspect if they start enforcing that people will start walking across the tracks, it's a few minutes walk from one side to the other.

On a similar note, there are some machines that are peculiarly placed to the extent that some customers might not even know they exist.

Meadowhall springs to mind, I ended up in a rather heated discussion with a conductor after I boarded there ticketless one evening due to the ticket office being closed. At the time I had no idea there was a machine outside between Platforms 2 and 3 - I had no reason to walk past it!

After a couple of minutes arguing he did eventually sell me the ticket I wanted at the correct price but I wasn’t happy at all. I didn’t feel his behaviour was quite worthy of making a formal complaint to Northern but I told him outright that his attitude was appalling and that he needed to get better at recognising the difference between honest people and fare evaders.

Thankfully I’ve found most guards on my travels perfectly pleasant though, every industry has a few individuals that let them down.

 

[DanTrain]

On a similar note, there are some machines that are peculiarly placed to the extent that some customers might not even know they exist.

Meadowhall springs to mind, I ended up in a rather heated discussion with a conductor after I boarded there ticketless one evening due to the ticket office being closed. At the time I had no idea there was a machine outside between Platforms 2 and 3 - I had no reason to walk past it!

After a couple of minutes arguing he did eventually sell me the ticket I wanted at the correct price but I wasn’t happy at all. I didn’t feel his behaviour was quite worthy of making a formal complaint to Northern but I told him outright that his attitude was appalling and that he needed to get better at recognising the difference between honest people and fare evaders.

Thankfully I’ve found most guards on my travels perfectly pleasant though, every industry has a few individuals that let them down.

I don’t get why they don’t put the ticket machines in the room with the ticket offices at Meadowhell!? Seems like common sense to me...

Glad you got the ticket in the end anyway - but remember all the people who got a free ride to Sheffield because they honestly couldn’t find the machine and the conductor didn’t get round to them!

 

[gtis]

On a similar note, there are some machines that are peculiarly placed to the extent that some customers might not even know they exist.

Meadowhall springs to mind, I ended up in a rather heated discussion with a conductor after I boarded there ticketless one evening due to the ticket office being closed. At the time I had no idea there was a machine outside between Platforms 2 and 3 - I had no reason to walk past it!

After a couple of minutes arguing he did eventually sell me the ticket I wanted at the correct price but I wasn’t happy at all. I didn’t feel his behaviour was quite worthy of making a formal complaint to Northern but I told him outright that his attitude was appalling and that he needed to get better at recognising the difference between honest people and fare evaders.

Thankfully I’ve found most guards on my travels perfectly pleasant though, every industry has a few individuals that let them down.

I think it’s same at Barnsley the TVM is on the over bridge to the other platform
So people going to Sheffield won’t see it
Neil

 

[skifans]

Adding another curious feature our machine offers Leeds and Manchester Piccadilly as popular destinations (they are), and then gives 7 day first or standard class season tickets as options. Select either and it takes you to the standard QWERTY keyboard without offering any other instruction. Try again, same result, can't see another course. Another time wasting transaction to delay the next person in the queue.

I just had a go with the ticket machine at Glasshouton and can confirm the same thing happens. However, if you enter any old rubbish and press enter a promt above the keyboard appears asking for your photocard id number. I think the keyboard is therefore correct, what is missing is the prompt.

 

[Killingworth]

I just had a go with the ticket machine at Glasshouton and can confirm the same thing happens. However, if you enter any old rubbish and press enter a promt above the keyboard appears asking for your photocard id number. I think the keyboard is therefore correct, what is missing is the prompt.

It was too much to expect it to take a picture and produce a photocard as well

 

[IanXC]

I don’t get why they don’t put the ticket machines in the room with the ticket offices at Meadowhell!? Seems like common sense to me...

Glad you got the ticket in the end anyway - but remember all the people who got a free ride to Sheffield because they honestly couldn’t find the machine and the conductor didn’t get round to them!

So that you can't use the ticket machines when the ticket office is closed? Perfect.

 

[marcouk2]

I think it’s same at Barnsley the TVM is on the over bridge to the other platform
So people going to Sheffield won’t see it
Neil

They've added 2 TVMs on the Sheffield platform now at Barnsley, opposite the ticket office.

 

[gtis]

They've added 2 TVMs on the Sheffield platform now at Barnsley, opposite the ticket office.

Are they have they put TVMs at Wombwell Elsecar and Chapletown
Neil

 

[DanTrain]

So that you can't use the ticket machines when the ticket office is closed? Perfect.

Fair point, but it would be logical to expect to buy your tickets from the place that advertises 'Train tickets and information'. It's worth remembering that a lot of people will be leaving the shopping centre and heading in Sheffield direction, in which case you wouldn't nescessarily know the ticket machine was there (as stated above).

Photo from National Rail station map.

 

[JaJaWa]

Why they hadn't bought a return ticket to Manchester was an unasked question, as was why they were trailing around with their big wheeled cases to do their sightseeing.

Return tickets don’t exist on China Railway – only train-specific singles (like an Advance but the price doesn’t change).

 

[thejuggler]

A new week, another change to the ticket buying process on the TVM.

Last week it was a three stage process, this morning 6.

 

[gtis]

They've added 2 TVMs on the Sheffield platform now at Barnsley, opposite the ticket office.

Yes checked them out today but they are card only
Neil

 

[Starmill]

I just arrived at Mauldeth Road now to travel in 10 minutes time, the ticket machine is frozen on the previous person's transaction and there are no buttons on the screen. I used the help point, which had no effect. I then called the customer relations number and the person who answered had no idea what to do. They asked me if there was a ticket office or another machine (no to both) and then had to put me on hold to find out from a colleague what I should do. Luckily she came back a moment later and said I'd need to take a photo and explain what had happened to the conductor who 'hopefully' would show discretion and sell the appropriate ticket. She also said that I might get a penalty fare but I could use my photo to appeal it and that this conversation would be recorded also. Based on past experience the chances that the guard will actually be coming through the train are near zero I fear. The thing that concerned me most about this was that the status light on top of the machine is green rather than red, despite it obviously being inoperable, and the lady on the phone could not see a fault.

Quite why anyone thinks this kind of nonsense is acceptable I have no idea.

 

[Starmill]

I would add that the insistence on taking a photo of the machine when I've called on two occasions now makes me think that guards and other revenue staff don't have access to live / recent history (say, past 2 hours) of TVM status, or if they do it isn't accurate enough. If they did there would be no need to ask the customer to take a picture.

 

[northwichcat]

If that's Northern policy then Northern need to provide a free camera to all passengers.

 

[urbophile]

And what about those technophobes who don't have a mobile phone or digital camera ? I know they are very much in the minority but that is no reason to penalise them. As far as I know the Home Secretary isn't planning to introduce a version of the 'pass laws' which make it compulsory to produce your phone at all times on request.

 

[gtis]

U

I just arrived at Mauldeth Road now to travel in 10 minutes time, the ticket machine is frozen on the previous person's transaction and there are no buttons on the screen. I used the help point, which had no effect. I then called the customer relations number and the person who answered had no idea what to do. They asked me if there was a ticket office or another machine (no to both) and then had to put me on hold to find out from a colleague what I should do. Luckily she came back a moment later and said I'd need to take a photo and explain what had happened to the conductor who 'hopefully' would show discretion and sell the appropriate ticket. She also said that I might get a penalty fare but I could use my photo to appeal it and that this conversation would be recorded also. Based on past experience the chances that the guard will actually be coming through the train are near zero I fear. The thing that concerned me most about this was that the status light on top of the machine is green rather than red, despite it obviously being inoperable, and the lady on the phone could not see a fault.

Quite why anyone thinks this kind of nonsense is acceptable I have no idea.

Would switching it off work

 

[Starmill]

U

Would switching it off work

The good old turn it off and in again? You would think they'd try it but apparently not.

 

[thealexweb]

I just arrived at Mauldeth Road now to travel in 10 minutes time, the ticket machine is frozen on the previous person's transaction and there are no buttons on the screen. I used the help point, which had no effect. I then called the customer relations number and the person who answered had no idea what to do. They asked me if there was a ticket office or another machine (no to both) and then had to put me on hold to find out from a colleague what I should do. Luckily she came back a moment later and said I'd need to take a photo and explain what had happened to the conductor who 'hopefully' would show discretion and sell the appropriate ticket. She also said that I might get a penalty fare but I could use my photo to appeal it and that this conversation would be recorded also. Based on past experience the chances that the guard will actually be coming through the train are near zero I fear. The thing that concerned me most about this was that the status light on top of the machine is green rather than red, despite it obviously being inoperable, and the lady on the phone could not see a fault.

Quite why anyone thinks this kind of nonsense is acceptable I have no idea.

I have considerably less time for railway farces that I used to. These ideas of “hopefully” relying on good will to avoid penalties is nonsense.

In that situation if on-board staff aren’t interested in selling a full range of tickets with all discounts available I would treat that as there has still been no opportunity to buy a ticket.

 

[DaveB10780]

Wow we even have a bright shiny machine now at sleepy Furness Vale on the Buxton line. Cards only and won't sell duos or any other non standard tickets.

 

[DanTrain]

I just arrived at Mauldeth Road now to travel in 10 minutes time, the ticket machine is frozen on the previous person's transaction and there are no buttons on the screen. I used the help point, which had no effect. I then called the customer relations number and the person who answered had no idea what to do. They asked me if there was a ticket office or another machine (no to both) and then had to put me on hold to find out from a colleague what I should do. Luckily she came back a moment later and said I'd need to take a photo and explain what had happened to the conductor who 'hopefully' would show discretion and sell the appropriate ticket. She also said that I might get a penalty fare but I could use my photo to appeal it and that this conversation would be recorded also. Based on past experience the chances that the guard will actually be coming through the train are near zero I fear. The thing that concerned me most about this was that the status light on top of the machine is green rather than red, despite it obviously being inoperable, and the lady on the phone could not see a fault.

Quite why anyone thinks this kind of nonsense is acceptable I have no idea.

Ridiculous. One I used recently froze when I accidentally clicked ‘collect ticket’. I had to put a card in for it to decide it was broken and return to the main page - no back button whatsoever. I’m beginning to think I could do a better job designing them myself with my very limited coding knowledge! Ameuterish.

 

[JaJaWa]

Machine at Leeds errored and froze when I clicked to pay with card

 

[northwichcat]

Ridiculous. One I used recently froze when I accidentally clicked ‘collect ticket’. I had to put a card in for it to decide it was broken and return to the main page - no back button whatsoever. I’m beginning to think I could do a better job designing them myself with my very limited coding knowledge! Ameuterish.

If you look at the display on the chip and pin screen there should be the name of some provider they are using on it. If it's blank it won't read your card but the machine doesn't realise that until it gets to the 'insert card' bit.

 

[Bantamzen]

If that's Northern policy then Northern need to provide a free camera to all passengers.

And what about those technophobes who don't have a mobile phone or digital camera ? I know they are very much in the minority but that is no reason to penalise them. As far as I know the Home Secretary isn't planning to introduce a version of the 'pass laws' which make it compulsory to produce your phone at all times on request.

What happens in these situations is that passengers use an alternative, verbal interface with the member of train crew assigned to check / sell fares. Something along the lines of "Sorry the ticket machine at (insert name of station here) isn't working so I couldn't buy a ticket. Can I have a (insert required ticket details here)?" seems to work quite well on the first lines that Northern rolled penalty fares & TVMs on.

 

[northwichcat]

What happens in these situations is that passengers use an alternative, verbal interface with the member of train crew assigned to check / sell fares. Something along the lines of "Sorry the ticket machine at (insert name of station here) isn't working so I couldn't buy a ticket. Can I have a (insert required ticket details here)?" seems to work quite well on the first lines that Northern rolled penalty fares & TVMs on.

Surely the Northern employee should be apologising for their machines being faulty, not the other way around.

 

[Starmill]

For complete clarity the two people I have spoken to on the phone at have most certainly not apologised when their ticket machine has been out of order. It would have surprised me if they did.

They also said that I could get a Penalty Fare without a photo, and refused to confirm that I wouldn't get one even with a photo.

 

[Bantamzen]

Surely the Northern employee should be apologising for their machines being faulty, not the other way around.

That was just an example of how someone might talk to a guard. But to satify the pendants here, allow me to revise:

"The ticket machine at (insert name of station here) isn't working so I couldn't buy a ticket. Can I have a (insert required ticket details here)?"

 

[WelshBluebird]

What happens in these situations is that passengers use an alternative, verbal interface with the member of train crew assigned to check / sell fares. Something along the lines of "Sorry the ticket machine at (insert name of station here) isn't working so I couldn't buy a ticket. Can I have a (insert required ticket details here)?" seems to work quite well on the first lines that Northern rolled penalty fares & TVMs on.

And when either the member of staff doesn't believe the passenger? Or there is no member of staff selling tickets on the train so the first person they come across is a outsourced agency person who is purely there to give penalty fares?

 

[Bantamzen]

And when either the member of staff doesn't believe the passenger? Or there is no member of staff selling tickets on the train so the first person they come across is a outsourced agency person who is purely there to give penalty fares?

Well judging by several months worth of using services fully within penalty fare zones every day, allow me to offer my opinion and observations:

And when either the member of staff doesn't believe the passenger?

-Well it seems most guards have no problem believing if a TVM is out of order, as there will likely be other passengers on the service reporting this, there may well have also been reports on previous services, and in some instances the guards will have seen the TVM themselves. I have seen this applied whenever a TVM has been down, indeed when I have needed to buy a ticket from my local station guards have sold me the appropriate fare on request.

Or there is no member of staff selling tickets on the train so the first person they come across is a outsourced agency person who is purely there to give penalty fares?

-This weekend just gone there were large numbers of revenue staff out and about on the Aire valley line due to the Bingley Festival taking place. Casual observation was that each check had at least one member off staff with a ticket machine available (sorry, I didn't ask if they were agency staff or Northern employees) and didn't seem to be there purely to take penalty fares. However in such an instance the first instance would be to tell them about the non-functional TVM. If they then incorrectly tried to apply a penalty fare, then complain / appeal against it.

And again I have been in a couple of situations were the TVM has been down, arrived at a revenue check having not seen the guard to buy on-board & been able to buy the appropriate ticket at the check having explained the situation.

That is of course not to say this will always be the case, in which instance I would follow the complaint / appeal route against any inappropriate fare or fine. However I have found that when a TVM has been down, reporting it to Northern seems to get either a relatively swift solution, or if that is not possible it appears on their journey check pages under station updates as a potential fault which crews & staff should be able to refer to.

This topic has a slight feel of Groundhog Day about it, popping up with almost monotonous regularity, with the same "what ifs" and discussion about possible worse case scenarios each time. All I can say, and keep on saying is that despite the original concerns raised almost 12 months ago when this scheme was initially announced, most passengers seem to be able to cope perfectly well with it, and the chaos almost gleefully predicted on here has to this date not come to pass.