northwichcat
Veteran Member
Yeah I meant so the person using the machine is facing south, so that the sun is in front of them not behind them.
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Northern Station Improvements & New Ticket Machines
- Thread starter Starmill
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Yeah I meant so the person using the machine is facing south, so that the sun is in front of them not behind them.
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Killingworth
Established Member
The volte face is appreciated
I suspect that when all the machines have been fixed for heat induced maladies we'll get a long period of dismal skies, then heavy rain, and finally frosts to find further weaknesses. I wonder what effect out of order TVMs are having on estimated passenger numbers in the current year? Impossible to quantify, of course. On 4 coach Pacer trains, like the one I was on last night, one suspects those deliberately boarding the lead unit wouldn't pay anyway!
There looks to be a concrete base there although only passed at speed
The ticket machine on the top of Platform 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly still isn't actually turned on
Sam
Sam
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but what on earth are Northern up to? These ticketing monstrosities are appearing everywhere, the Hope Valley now appears to have a new set, and the on I used today at Bamford is south facing, so hard to read in the sun, it requires you to click on popular destinations -> other destinations before you get a keyboard to find a destination (there are no popular destinations available it seems!) and it voided my first attempt without telling me, just printing out a card receipt for £0.00.
Have they got a franchise commitement for these (this may have been covered, sorry, but 18 pages), and if so are they really going in at Teeside Airport, Denton and Sellafield!? Also, when are they going to realise that none of them seem to work properly, I mean how hard can it be to design a ticket machine!?
Have they got a franchise commitement for these (this may have been covered, sorry, but 18 pages), and if so are they really going in at Teeside Airport, Denton and Sellafield!? Also, when are they going to realise that none of them seem to work properly, I mean how hard can it be to design a ticket machine!?
The ones at Bolton apparently the most popular destination there are Preston and Manchester Airport!
Somehow I do not believe that.
Sam
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
I'm not sure if these machines are much of an improvement over the smaller ones the old Northern installed. The new one at Batley does seem to be coping better than it was with MCard renewals.
They're absolute rubbish. They're far from intuitive to use and they also break with tedious regularity. The one at Dore is broken so often I usually end up writing a list of TOD codes and seat numbers out, waiting till I get out of the poor phone signal area, print them on mass and deliver them to their generally extremely grateful intending passengers. Dronfield and Widnes are equally rubbish as well.
I've also had reports from passengers of being intimidated into paying penalty fares having used our non penalty fare services from stations in the North West when they've had broken machines/closed booking offices/invisible conductors on arrival at gatelines.
I've also had reports from passengers of being intimidated into paying penalty fares having used our non penalty fare services from stations in the North West when they've had broken machines/closed booking offices/invisible conductors on arrival at gatelines.
Franchise requirement to install at stations with more than 3000 journeys per annum that's only about 5 return journeys a day so Sellafield easily qualifies for one with over 200,000 journeys. Also required to install at all stations in Greater Manchester so Denton should get one. No requirement for one at Teeside Airport.
Intercity 225
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I agree that this is a terrible feature, it confused me at first too and I've helped numerous others I've seen struggling with them since!
The worrying thing is many seem to have been rushed in so they can slap their promise to pay / penalty fare scheme on the lines, and even if they’re broken revenue protection at the other end are unlikely to show any sympathy from experience! Meaning you then have to jump through further hoops to get your penalty fare cleared for something that was out of your control to begin with!
fishtastic
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Hello everyone, first post....
I noticed they had put a TVM on the Barrow-bound side of Seascale station, would Northern expect the little old ladies of Seascale to go under the bridge up the hill get a ticket and then walk all the way back to the Carlisle-bound platform. It seems a bit extreme, would they fine someone without a ticket going towards Carlisle?
I noticed they had put a TVM on the Barrow-bound side of Seascale station, would Northern expect the little old ladies of Seascale to go under the bridge up the hill get a ticket and then walk all the way back to the Carlisle-bound platform. It seems a bit extreme, would they fine someone without a ticket going towards Carlisle?
Intercity 225
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Whilst this hasn't happened to me yet, to avoid a big argument should I be confronted I've always taken a picture of the faulty machine when I've needed to board at a station with one... I'm getting quite a collection!
Why should it be up to the passenger to have to do this though?Whilst this hasn't happened to me yet, to avoid a big argument should I be confronted I've always taken a picture of the faulty machine when I've needed to board at a station with one... I'm getting quite a collection!
It should be Northern's job to keep an update to date fault list for the TVM's.
Sam
Bevan Price
Established Member
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Because the "robber barons" think that everyone unable to get the correct ticket - for whatever reason -is deliberately trying to defraud the railways. Whilst not defending genuine fare dodgers, the inability to get the correct ticket is often due to understaffing, over-complicated fares system, and/or incompetence of the rail company.
Killingworth
Established Member
That would be fine, but they can fail and reset themselves automatically within a few minutes. As an example, if a debit/credit card is left in the slot too long it will time out and often it closes the machine - some sort of self defence reaction! After a few minutes it will usually restart, by which time on a busy station word will have gone round that it's out of order and some will have boarded a train without tickets.
Similarly, some faults can be reset centrally, but it seems someone has to pass a message that a manual reset is needed. Use the Help Point to request this and some of the staff can find a way to do it within a couple of minutes - sometimes.
The contract with Parkeon or their servicing agents says a fault should be fixed within a given period. I was told what it was, but can't now recall how long, something like 6 or 7 hours. The clock starts ticking when Northern pass on the fault to them. They should be able to spot it from a control system but seems they often don't until we, the public, tell them!
So how do Northern conductors and revenue protection people know which TVM was out of order and when to allow appropriate understanding to people travelling without a ticket? The list of faults and times potentially changes by the minute.
Intercity 225 has the best plan, to photograph the machine, however I have so many pictures they'd have to be very carefully scrutinised to confirm which day and time they were in relation to my current journey.
The cost of these machines and their servicing must be many times the revenue they'll ever collect on most of the smaller stations, even when they do eventually sort out some of the bugs. The role of ticket selling conductor seems secure on very many Northern routes.
This has been the case with their Parkeon machines for the whole time I've used them, perhaps a bit over four years. I complained to old Northern and new Northern that a) you can't type in your destination from the home screen, you must first press popular destination, and b) the popular destinations are usually wrong / not populated with more than a handful with most of the screen blank. Neither Northern seem to care for my feedback, though, and have shown zero intention of doing anything to make the design of the user interface more like the logical ones used by the other major manufacturers.
Northern's ticket machines are definitely the worst I've ever used.
I frequently take a photo of a broken machine. I shouldn't have to as it is Northern's fault. The problem is that they train their temporary staff to adopt a burden of reverse proof approach - i.e. the customer hasn't purchased a ticket therefore they deliberately avoided the ticket office or machine.Whilst this hasn't happened to me yet, to avoid a big argument should I be confronted I've always taken a picture of the faulty machine when I've needed to board at a station with one... I'm getting quite a collection!
If I ever find myself in a situation where I'm charged a full price ticket at the station of arrival then I have a massive bank of evidence to call upon to demonstrate that Northern do not maintain their ticket machines and cannot guarantee passengers will have the opportunity to purchase one before boarding.
I have absolutely no problem with £20 penalty fares, just the implementation of it has to be faultless for it to work and Northern are not faultless. I remember the first week they came in conductors were having a crackdown. Now they just don't bother with the £20 penalty and sell tickets at full price.
The one below is perfect of the member of staff seemingly on his break and the ticket machine out of order.
Killingworth
Established Member
Like sending out two units on a line without staffed stations or barriers (including at termini like York and Sheffield) where the conductor can't get from one to the other in mid-journey. It's hardly surprising regular users get in the front unit safe in the knowledge nobody will normally challenge them at any point. Why Northern don't link up their 150/2s together rather than linking to a 150/1 or Pacer is something they need to consider.
I was at Dore & Totley on Sunday and met two Chinese* travellers trying to use the TVM to buy tickets to Manchester. They needed to pay £42 and couldn't find where to put their money. I showed them how to use the card reader. It didn't accept their Chinese cards, one of which was chip and pin. To demonstrate that the machine worked I tried to use 3 of my cards. Only one worked, so I bought them their tickets and took their cash. These TVMs are a nightmare!
*Amazingly, it seems they'd arrived on a flight to Manchester Airport that morning, had found on a Google App that to see Bakewell and Chatsworth House they should get a train to Dore & Totley, then a 218 bus. Why they hadn't bought a return ticket to Manchester was an unasked question, as was why they were trailing around with their big wheeled cases to do their sightseeing. What's happened to left luggage offices?
Spartacus
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Reminds me of the one I recently encountered in Belgium, wouldn't take my card and only took coins, not notes. The local who paid for mine by card before I gave him cash said it never accepted foreign cards. No such trouble at the local preserved line.
xotGD
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Four times I have tried to collect a ticket from the new machine at Knottingley. Four times it has failed to give me a ticket, claiming that my collection code wasn't recognised. Every time, I have then obtained my ticket without a problem elsewhere. Suggests that this machine just isn't set up properly for ticket collection.
Apparently this is now quite common, Chatsworth must have made it into some guidebook and Google's done the rest
.Good for you! Part of me wants one of these to go to court, then we'll see how many broken ticket machines they really have! (apart from all the stress and cost etc.).I frequently take a photo of a broken machine. I shouldn't have to as it is Northern's fault. The problem is that they train their temporary staff to adopt a burden of reverse proof approach - i.e. the customer hasn't purchased a ticket therefore they deliberately avoided the ticket office or machine.
If I ever find myself in a situation where I'm charged a full price ticket at the station of arrival then I have a massive bank of evidence to call upon to demonstrate that Northern do not maintain their ticket machines and cannot guarantee passengers will have the opportunity to purchase one before boarding.
I have absolutely no problem with £20 penalty fares, just the implementation of it has to be faultless for it to work and Northern are not faultless. I remember the first week they came in conductors were having a crackdown. Now they just don't bother with the £20 penalty and sell tickets at full price.
The one below is perfect of the member of staff seemingly on his break and the ticket machine out of order.
At the moment, Northern can't seem to decide whether you should pay on the train or pay at the station, most of the time conductors seem to be quite happy to sell a ticket on the move, and yet I'm sure official company policy is pay before you get on
.I've noticed that about the MCards, on introduction they were quite unpredictable & once I'd worked out which was the right reader (its wasn't exactly obvious until they added little pink stickers around them) it seemed to time the reader out after starting the renewal process on-screen, but before I could get the card into the reader. Then I realised that you could start the renewal process by simply putting the card in the reader.....
But now it takes only a few seconds to sort out, although you do have to take note of the start date if you do not want your next pass to start the same day.
Killingworth
Established Member
Adding another curious feature our machine offers Leeds and Manchester Piccadilly as popular destinations (they are), and then gives 7 day first or standard class season tickets as options. Select either and it takes you to the standard QWERTY keyboard without offering any other instruction. Try again, same result, can't see another course. Another time wasting transaction to delay the next person in the queue.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
If ever I'm going to Leeds (from Batley) and getting the non-stop Hull service, and the ticket machine is out of order I take a photo of it on my phone, just in case the guard (or more likely the ticket window people at Leeds) decide to question me for not having a ticket beforehand.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
In some countries a return is the price of two singles so maybe it was just they aren't used to our way of ticketing? I imagine the best ticket for them was the TfGM Wayfarer ticket opposed to separate tickets.
Killingworth
Established Member
Perhaps, even in the unlikely event that a newly arrived visitor from another continent could immediately understand the peculiar intricacies of British rail and bus ticketing the TfGM Wayfarer wasn't an option to or from Dore & Totley - unless they'd bought it at the Airport station and then a return from Grindleford to Dore & Totley on the train. The 218 is run by T M Travel who do participate in the TfGM Wayfarer scheme so it might be accepted for the part of the journey from Owler Bar that's within Derbyshire!
A Derbyshire Wayfarer would have been valid from New Mills to and from Dore & Totley and also on their 218 bus. That's not available to buy from TVMs or on trains.
Joseph_Locke
Established Member
Yes, they will (when they can say "but there was an opportunity to buy a ticket at your origin station"). Whilst I don't support much of the modern way of doing things, fare evasion in any form is a crime and always has been.
Reminds me of yesterday when i seen someone at Euston buy a return tube ticket to kings cross , was 7.90 or something .
northwichcat
Veteran Member
TfL's policy of make paper tickets expensive so people go contactless is actually the same as in other cities internationally now.
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