Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[Crossforth]

Funny performance this afternoon. The 1340 Manchester Airport to Liverpool semi-fast (1F98) got away from the Airport three minutes late and lost another two minutes to Oxford Road. It would have been approaching Ordsall Lane Junction at about 1408 but was held on approach. In the meantime the 1402 Manchester Victoria to Liverpool stopper (2F37) left Victoria a minute late and would have been approaching Ordsall Lane Junction at about 1406 and it, too, was held on approach. However at 1408 it was given a clear signal, ahead of 1F98. I can only think that this was an error, since there was nothing that 2F37 needed to be out of the way of.
At Earlestown 2F37 was diverted into platform 5 (i.e. the Warrington-bound platform) in order to let the semi-fast pass. I presume that the stopper would have then been sent down the Warrington line as far as the crossover, then back through platform 3, since any other manoeuvre wouldn't have made particularly good sense. 1F98 reached Liverpool at 1457, 14 minutes behind schedule (compared to the working time), and 2F37 at 1509 (5 minutes behind).
The above information has been obtained from 'Realtime Trains', I did not witness any of the above happening, nor can I say which units were involved, not that such details would be relevant, really.

I was on 2F37. We pulled up to Ordsall Lane Junction from Vic about the same time as the Manchester Airport to Blackpool North service turned up. That was let in front of us and then we got under way. I didn't see 1F98 at Ordsall.

Once 2F37 got to Earlestown, we were looped to allow, what I now know to be, 1F98 to pass. 2F37 never entered platform 5.

 

[Bevan Price]

Funny performance this afternoon. The 1340 Manchester Airport to Liverpool semi-fast (1F98) got away from the Airport three minutes late and lost another two minutes to Oxford Road. It would have been approaching Ordsall Lane Junction at about 1408 but was held on approach. In the meantime the 1402 Manchester Victoria to Liverpool stopper (2F37) left Victoria a minute late and would have been approaching Ordsall Lane Junction at about 1406 and it, too, was held on approach. However at 1408 it was given a clear signal, ahead of 1F98. I can only think that this was an error, since there was nothing that 2F37 needed to be out of the way of.
At Earlestown 2F37 was diverted into platform 5 (i.e. the Warrington-bound platform) in order to let the semi-fast pass. I presume that the stopper would have then been sent down the Warrington line as far as the crossover, then back through platform 3, since any other manoeuvre wouldn't have made particularly good sense. 1F98 reached Liverpool at 1457, 14 minutes behind schedule (compared to the working time), and 2F37 at 1509 (5 minutes behind).
The above information has been obtained from 'Realtime Trains', I did not witness any of the above happening, nor can I say which units were involved, not that such details would be relevant, really.

I very much doubt that it actually went into Platform 5 at Earlestown - far more likely that it was put into the loop line connected to Platform 3 so that it could be overtaken by the Airport service. (A similar movement happened to me last year.)

 

[Bovverboy]

I was on 2F37. We pulled up to Ordsall Lane Junction from Vic about the same time as the Manchester Airport to Blackpool North service turned up. That was let in front of us and then we got under way. I didn't see 1F98 at Ordsall.

Once 2F37 got to Earlestown, we were looped to allow, what I now know to be, 1F98 to pass. 2F37 never entered platform 5.

RTT says that it used platform 5, but if you were on it and say that it didn't, I do of course accept that.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y63048/2017/06/16/advanced
According to RTT, 1F98 passed Deansgate at 1406 and Ordsall Lane Junction at 1409, so it wouldn't have been very far away when 2F37 got the clear. 1F98 would have passed Castlefield Junction on amber, so progress from there would have been muted, explaining why it took three minutes to reach Ordsall Lane Junction from Deansgate, instead of the scheduled minute and a half.

I'm adding 2F37's details from the 'charlwoodhouse' website, since the information should stay live for over twelve months, rather than the seven days of RTT.
http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/7879303/16/06/17

 

[8A Rail]

319377 returned from Wolverton to Allerton Saturday afternoon (17th) in the plain off white livery (no northern markings).

 

[Loop & Link]

RTT says that it used platform 5, but if you were on it and say that it didn't, I do of course accept that.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y63048/2017/06/16/advanced
According to RTT, 1F98 passed Deansgate at 1406 and Ordsall Lane Junction at 1409, so it wouldn't have been very far away when 2F37 got the clear. 1F98 would have passed Castlefield Junction on amber, so progress from there would have been muted, explaining why it took three minutes to reach Ordsall Lane Junction from Deansgate, instead of the scheduled minute and a half.

I'm adding 2F37's details from the 'charlwoodhouse' website, since the information should stay live for over twelve months, rather than the seven days of RTT.
http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/rail/liverail/train/7879303/16/06/17

2F37 could have gone bi-di at Ordsall Lane by the look of it?

 

[driver_m]

Not aware of whether this has been posted elsewhere, but it's the weekly notices that ASDO is being installed on the Styal Line at some of the stations. Says it's not being put to use at this time, but may be a pointer to the future stock being used on services on the line. (Unless it's for TPE use)

 

[northwichcat]

Not aware of whether this has been posted elsewhere, but it's the weekly notices that ASDO is being installed on the Styal Line at some of the stations. Says it's not being put to use at this time, but may be a pointer to the future stock being used on services on the line. (Unless it's for TPE use)

Given the proposed calling patterns on the Airport line at the next recast it's possible 6 car Connect services to Blackpool or Cumbria will call at one or two stations between the Airport and Piccadilly.

 

[driver_m]

Also putting ASDO on p4 of the airport station if this is of any use as info. Not Styal but all other platforms between Heald Green and Mauldeth Rd.

 

[boby32]

Video of 319424

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzLMjbx7BaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6nCbpxdFWI

 

[DJH1971]

Video of 319424

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzLMjbx7BaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6nCbpxdFWI

And in the new full livery too.

I take it that 319448 and 319450 are permanent additions now, as there seems to be a poster inside these 2 units saying 'Just Visiting'.

 

[boby32]

And in the new full livery too.

I take it that 319448 and 319450 are permanent additions now, as there seems to be a poster inside these 2 units saying 'Just Visiting'.

319448 and 319450 are in service now.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Posts have gone up on other threads about Northern receiving more 150s this autumn and in the New Year post Didcot electrification, which will put the cascade process back on schedule

Have we an idea which diagrams may be strengthened? Or is there a separate thread for the actual strengthening and this thread primarily concerns the process of the rolling stock itself?

 

[northwichcat]

Posts have gone up on other threads about Northern receiving more 150s this autumn and in the New Year post Didcot electrification, which will put the cascade process back on schedule

Have we an idea which diagrams may be strengthened? Or is there a separate thread for the actual strengthening and this thread primarily concerns the process of the rolling stock itself?

Most of the units are for the service frequency enhancements, the ones going ahead in December 2017 are being discussed here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=141473 the ones which have been postponed to May 2018 are being discussed here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=147558

 

[Jamesrob637]

Most of the units are for the service frequency enhancements, the ones going ahead in December 2017 are being discussed here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=141473 the ones which have been postponed to May 2018 are being discussed here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=147558

Thanks very much!

 

[1179_Clee2]

Posts have gone up on other threads about Northern receiving more 150s this autumn and in the New Year post Didcot electrification, which will put the cascade process back on schedule

Have we an idea which diagrams may be strengthened? Or is there a separate thread for the actual strengthening and this thread primarily concerns the process of the rolling stock itself?

With Northern being massively behind on the TSI PRM mods.
Northern may have to send ALL incoming GWR and Scotrail trains to various works to have the mods done.
Think Northern are getting ALL 50 150/1's the first of which has just been repainted.
Two more have been done but not repainted.
47 more to do in less than 30 months.
Currently taking approx 6 months to have the mods done.

 

[sd0733]

With Northern being massively behind on the TSI PRM mods.
Northern may have to send ALL incoming GWR and Scotrail trains to various works to have the mods done.
Think Northern are getting ALL 50 150/1's the first of which has just been repainted.
Two more have been done but not repainted.
47 more to do in less than 30 months.
Currently taking approx 6 months to have the mods done.

I believe some of the GWR 150/1s are having the PRM mods while still down there. Saw at least one last week with digital destination boards and a blanked out window for the big new toilet.

 

[1179_Clee2]

I believe some of the GWR 150/1s are having the PRM mods while still down there. Saw at least one last week with digital destination boards and a blanked out window for the big new toilet.

When I had a day in Bristol one month ago I saw 9 of the 17 150/1's that Northern are getting, but none had been for TSI PRM.
Saw 150 002 that has been done and I think 150 001 has been done as well.
Did you see a 150/0 or a 150/1 ??

 

[sd0733]

When I was had a day in Bristol one month ago I saw 9 of the 17 150/1's that Northern are getting, but none had been for TSI PRM.
Saw 150 002 that has been done and I think 150 001 has been done as well.
Did you see a 150/0 or a 150/1 ??

Yes saw 001 and 002 but was another of the 3 car ones, 926 I think it was. On a flickr search theres a few pics of the digital screens on there.

 

[158722]

Yes saw 001 and 002 but was another of the 3 car ones, 926 I think it was. On a flickr search theres a few pics of the digital screens on there.

The 150/1 cars of 150926 (ergo 150126) have been PRM'ed and I gather 150131 is now at Doncaster for the same. Both are destined for Northern, eventually.

I'd disagree with the earlier poster regarding Northern being way behind in terms PRM'ing their units. They are doing much better than ATW who appear to have no plan and no current program underway!

Northern are starting to chip away at the 150/1s - both in their own fleet and those currently at GWR - whilst the 150/2s are subject to the full refurb (ala 275/276) or separate PRM only program (several former FNW and LM ones now done). The 156s are being done at a good old lick and apparently the first 158 (845?) has been done at Brush. Yes, still a long way to go, but so have all of the operators with 15x fleets.

 

[sd0733]

The 150/1 cars of 150926 (ergo 150126) have been PRM'ed and I gather 150131 is now at Doncaster for the same. Both are destined for Northern, eventually.

I'd disagree with the earlier poster regarding Northern being way behind in terms PRM'ing their units. They are doing much better than ATW who appear to have no plan and no current program underway!

Northern are starting to chip away at the 150/1s - both in their own fleet and those currently at GWR - whilst the 150/2s are subject to the full refurb (ala 275/276) or separate PRM only program (several former FNW and LM ones now done). The 156s are being done at a good old lick and apparently the first 158 (845?) has been done at Brush. Yes, still a long way to go, but so have all of the operators with 15x fleets.

131 isn't done. I saw it in Bristol the other day and its had an overhaul as its on brand new bogies etc but still has the small toilet window, roller destination blind etc.

 

[158722]

131 isn't done. I saw it in Bristol the other day and its had an overhaul as its on brand new bogies etc but still has the small toilet window, roller destination blind etc.

I stand corrected - no other gone off for PRM work then?

 

[1179_Clee2]

I'd disagree with the earlier poster regarding Northern being way behind in terms PRM'ing their units.

Northern are starting to chip away at the 150/1s - both in their own fleet and those currently at GWR - whilst the 150/2s are subject to the full refurb (ala 275/276) or separate PRM only program (several former FNW and LM ones now done). The 156s are being done at a good old lick and apparently the first 158 (845?) has been done at Brush. Yes, still a long way to go, but so have all of the operators with 15x fleets.

Lets do some maths to see IF Northern are behind on TSI PRM
Over 200 DMU's (150,155,156,158 and 170) to convert and ONLY 28 converted. (170 will need less work)
200- 28=172 DMU's still to convert.
Two and a half years left until 2020 OR 30 months.
172 trains divided by 30 months =5.73 DMU's need TSI PRM every month until 2020.
Currently taking aprox 6 months to do a Class 150 and 14 months to do a 155.
Looking just at a class 150, 6 months times by 5.73 trains =34.38 DMU's need to be in the works TODAY to achieve TSI PRM by 2020.
A BIG QUESTION. Have Northern got 34.38 complete DMU's out of use having TSI PRM work being done today ??

 

[YorkshireBear]

Lets do some maths to see IF Northern are behind on TSI PRM
Over 200 DMU's (150,155,156,158 and 170) to convert and ONLY 28 converted. (170 will need less work)
200- 28=172 DMU's still to convert.
Two and a half years left until 2020 OR 30 months.
172 trains divided by 30 months =5.73 DMU's need TSI PRM every month until 2020.
Currently taking aprox 6 months to do a Class 150 and 14 months to do a 155.
Looking just at a class 150, 6 months times by 5.73 trains =34.38 DMU's need to be in the works TODAY to achieve TSI PRM by 2020.
A BIG QUESTION. Have Northern got 34.38 complete DMU's out of use having TSI PRM work being done today ??

The 6 months is for full refurbishment not TSI PRM.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there any plan to replace the seats, or at least the seat bases, on the ex RRNE 156s? They are thick sprung type bases and they have nearly all collapsed, causing them to tip you forward uncomfortably.

 

[Starmill]

The 6 months is for full refurbishment not TSI PRM.

I don't think it is - 150137 has had very little refurbishment work done. It's rumored it will get new seats in future.

 

[1179_Clee2]

The 6 months is for full refurbishment not TSI PRM.

So how many of the 200 need a full refurb ??

 

[keith1879]

Lets do some maths to see IF Northern are behind on TSI PRM
Over 200 DMU's (150,155,156,158 and 170) to convert and ONLY 28 converted. (170 will need less work)
200- 28=172 DMU's still to convert.
Two and a half years left until 2020 OR 30 months.
172 trains divided by 30 months =5.73 DMU's need TSI PRM every month until 2020.
Currently taking aprox 6 months to do a Class 150 and 14 months to do a 155.
Looking just at a class 150, 6 months times by 5.73 trains =34.38 DMU's need to be in the works TODAY to achieve TSI PRM by 2020.
A BIG QUESTION. Have Northern got 34.38 complete DMU's out of use having TSI PRM work being done today ??

They are behind if you accept these figures but it is inconceivable that (for example) each individual 155 will take 14 months. There must be some accelaration in these figures as lessons are learned. That said - it looks like a tall order.

 

[northwichcat]

The 6 months is for full refurbishment not TSI PRM.

Also the full refurbishment is supposed to include replacing the lighting with LED lighting, which I don't think has been done on any train yet.

 

[158722]

Lets do some maths to see IF Northern are behind on TSI PRM
Over 200 DMU's (150,155,156,158 and 170) to convert and ONLY 28 converted. (170 will need less work)
200- 28=172 DMU's still to convert.
Two and a half years left until 2020 OR 30 months.
172 trains divided by 30 months =5.73 DMU's need TSI PRM every month until 2020.
Currently taking aprox 6 months to do a Class 150 and 14 months to do a 155.
Looking just at a class 150, 6 months times by 5.73 trains =34.38 DMU's need to be in the works TODAY to achieve TSI PRM by 2020.
A BIG QUESTION. Have Northern got 34.38 complete DMU's out of use having TSI PRM work being done today ??

As others have pointed out, there are essentially two levels of work being done - full refurbishment (which includes PRM compliance) and PRM only work, such as on the 156s at Springburn.

I don't disagree that they are behind (everyone is!) and that there is a major challenge to get all those 200 done, but it looks like PRM only work can be done is something like 10+ working days, if the 156s are anything to go by.

 

[janb]

Mr Sumpter said as well as refurbished London underground trains being used on the East Lancashire line from Preston through Blackburn, Accrington and Burnley to Colne to replace 30-year-old Pacers by 2019, some could be brand new units.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...ackburn_creates_more_than_100_new_train_jobs/

Vivarail stock on Preston to Colne? Sorry if this has already been discussed, hadn't heard this before.