Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[childwallblues]

Has this unit lost southern livery

Thanks

Seems stange units without a ho,e are being made compliant with a far from neutral interior colour scheme to boot

I presume 319/2s are used on the three bridges to bedford services ... I must travel on one before they disappear

319/2 are now inter mixed with all other 319 variants on Thameslink. A good place to get 319s is the St Albans to Sutton route.

 

[AM9]

319/2 are now inter mixed with all other 319 variants on Thameslink. A good place to get 319s is the St Albans to Sutton route.

And the Sevenoaks services that go to St Albans, Luton and a few (running fast to St Albans in the peak hours) to Bedford.

 

[northwichcat]

Considering the stocks age Northern have done a good job in refreshing them and the passengers and staff do like them. It always makes me laugh though when I see the "Northern Electrics" posters everywhere when on the south side of Manchester we have had "Electrics" for many many many years.

The Airport station has, of course, seen electric services since it opened.

 

[D365]

New Northern Electics?

 

[jopsuk]

just as long as they're not described as "Great Northern Electrics"?

 

[Jonny]

are you sure that wasnt an old poster FOR Northern Electric (from whom i used to purchase both Gas & electric)

For those to young to know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Electric

PS how have they got away with that branding?

Because Northern Electric (and Gas) is no longer a current brand (merged into nPower IIRC). It is most likely dead as a trademark and even if it isn't it is unlikely to be worth pursuing or to succeed.

 

[AM9]

just as long as they're not described as "Great Northern Electrics"?

They'll have to wait until the 319s are retired before they can have the 365s.

 

[D365]

They'll have to wait until the 319s are retired before they can have the 365s.

Hands off! It's bad enough to have to give more than half of our fleet away for no good reason

 

[northwichcat]

Hands off! It's bad enough to have to give more than half of our fleet away for no good reason

If DfT hadn't decided to order brand new Electostars for an interim requirement on Thameslink, then maybe you could have kept your 365s.

 

[AM9]

If DfT hadn't decided to bring forward the order for Electrostar units that will be redeployed on another electrification project because they ordered the trains for Thamelink too late in the programme, then maybe you could have kept your 365s.

I've made your statement more meaningful.

 

[Cotty]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97131/2015/04/30/advanced

New trains from Wolverton tomorrow according to RTT.

 

[northwichcat]

I've made your statement more meaningful.

While new EMUs for Thames Valley had been looked at, 319s were mentioned as the probable traction for Thames Valley in the Network Rail CP5 plans issued early last year. Apparently last year DfT had no idea where they were redeploying the surplus Electrostars and the delay to Manchester-York electrification helped their decision.

because they ordered the trains for Thamelink too late in the programme

First I've heard about a new rail link for the Oxfordshire town of Thame. Does that include the reopening of Thame station.

 

[DJH1971]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97131/2015/04/30/advanced

New trains from Wolverton tomorrow according to RTT.

Wonder which 319's these are?

 

[childwallblues]

319368 was on the 1640 MIA-LIV yesterday, whilst 319367 was on the 1713 LIV-MIA.

 

[AM9]

While new EMUs for Thames Valley had been looked at, 319s were mentioned as the probable traction for Thames Valley in the Network Rail CP5 plans issued early last year. Apparently last year DfT had no idea where they were redeploying the surplus Electrostars and the delay to Manchester-York electrification helped their decision.

I didn't say that the 387s were ordered with redeployment in any specific area in mind, (I don't give the DfT that much credit) and there has been speculation over the last 18 months that they could be used in various places including the Corby service for which they would be suitable given the realtively short journey times making it just another outer suburban/commuter route.
The 319s may well still find work somewhere on the GWML commuter areas, who knows otherwise with any constraints that a new government may apply.
The fact is, Thameslink needed something to cope with the (still) rising demand, a for peak-hour capacity and b) to enable very tight paths on the MML to be used. The fact that they have less seating than 319s and (most) 377s but not much more standing room means that any extra capacity will be needed when the 700s come online next year. There will of course be howls of complaint from those who think that the 387s' seating style will be perpetuated with the new trains. I've now travelled on a 'refreshed' 319 between MIA and LIV and found it perfectly adequate for such a short journey.

p.s. 319s would be ideal as interim stock for the Reading to Basingstoke line.

First I've heard about a new rail link for the Oxfordshire town of Thame. Does that include the reopening of Thame station.

Maybe they didn't mention it on the local news up there, yes the line to High Wycombe and Bourne End will be reinstated and connected into the GWML 25kV at Maindenhead. Marlow will still have to put up with recycled 313s though.

 

[northwichcat]

I didn't say that the 387s were ordered with redeployment in any specific area in mind, (I don't give the DfT that much credit) and there has been speculation over the last 18 months that they could be used in various places including the Corby service for which they would be suitable given the realtively short journey times making it just another outer suburban/commuter route.
The 319s may well still find work somewhere on the GWML commuter areas, who knows otherwise with any constraints that a new government may apply.
The fact is, Thameslink needed something to cope with the (still) rising demand, a for peak-hour capacity and b) to enable very tight paths on the MML to be used. The fact that they have less seating than 319s and (most) 377s but not much more standing room means that any extra capacity will be needed when the 700s come online next year. There will of course be howls of complaint from those who think that the 387s' seating style will be perpetuated with the new trains. I've now travelled on a 'refreshed' 319 between MIA and LIV and found it perfectly adequate for such a short journey.

p.s. 319s would be ideal as interim stock for the Reading to Basingstoke line.

Ordering extra Electrostars for Thameslink was mainly so to save the government from embarrassment of having wires up in the North West and no electric trains to run under them. They also didn't want the bad publicity which would have come from loaning brand new Electrostars to Northern and then replacing them with old trains or from taking trains off Thameslink to send North before replacement units were available for Thameslink.

It seems from what people have posted about 319s on Liverpool-Manchester Airport services confirms what I suspected all along. The 319/3s have poor interiors for services which can have a high volume of luggage and the peak Summer season hasn't started yet.

It seems DfT have accepted 319s with their current interior will be unsuitable for Manchester Airport-Blackpool/Windemere services given the ITT for the next Northern franchise specifies trains for those services must have adequate space for luggage given the services 'will operate to/from airports and significant tourist centres.'

 

[AM9]

Ordering extra Electrostars for Thameslink was mainly so to save the government from embarrassment of having wires up in the North West and no electric trains to run under them. They also didn't want the bad publicity which would have come from loaning brand new Electrostars to Northern and then replacing them with old trains or from taking trains off Thameslink to send North before replacement units were available for Thameslink.

It seems from what people have posted about 319s on Liverpool-Manchester Airport services confirms what I suspected all along. The 319/3s have poor interiors for services which can have a high volume of luggage and the peak Summer season hasn't started yet.

It seems DfT have accepted 319s with their current interior will be unsuitable for Manchester Airport-Blackpool/Windemere services given the ITT for the next Northern franchise specifies trains for those services must have adequate space for luggage given the services 'will operate to/from airports and significant tourist centres.'

Whilst I agree with the comment about embarassment at DfT, I think that it was more to do with the delay in ordering the 700s following the bungled selection of supplier. There was a lot of bad publicity down here beyond the 'support British industry' calls.
That meant that Thameslink couldn't use them early enough to enable release of 319s for Northern. There weren't enough 377s down here to support the growth in TL traffic. No other stock would do as the Thameslink requirement is very specific.
I would agree that the 319/3 cascaded units are not the best choice for any of the airport runs, - the same was true here, and the 319/4s had luggage racks installed which generally proved suitable for services that served two major airports and one international rail station. Either as part of a major interior refurbishment or a minor as and when modification at depot level, they could be fitted to all trains that mioght be used on airport runs.
From personal experience, comfortable as they are, none of the Electrostars' current fits are suitable for airport traffic so even the 387s wouldn't really be practical for MIA to BPN, WDM or LIV.

 

[158722]

Wonder which 319's these are?

319386 would be logical as it has been at Wolverton since March 16th, the longest time of those present. 371/372/374 went in 30/31 March and 383 on April 6th.

 

[Cotty]

Looks like the latest 319s came north from Wolverton, did anyone see the numbers or get any photos?

 

[PaintYourWagon]

Looks like the latest 319s came north from Wolverton, did anyone see the numbers or get any photos?

A photo dated 30th April shows 319386 heading north from Long Buckby with the 5Z20, [1629] Wolverton - Allerton ECS.

So the punt on 319386 was correct.

Appears to be only 319386.

 

[childwallblues]

Wonder which 319's these are?

That was 319386 which arrived at Allerton last night.

 

[evergreenadam]

Which diagrams will the 319s be working from the May timetable change? Apologies if this has already been mentioned but it is a long thread!

 

[Geeves]

Liverpool - Airports in its entirety, Selected Liverpool - Wigan/Vic jobs on a random number/diagram/unit generator!

 

[Loop & Link]

1800 Lime St-Preston will also be a 319.

Warrington BQ diagrams will still be a DMU but one will have 2 units coupled all day.

 

[Class 170101]

1800 Lime St-Preston will also be a 319.

Warrington BQ diagrams will still be a DMU but one will have 2 units coupled all day.

Are all the 319s at Northern's disposal in use by then? Seems criminal to have as DMU on a completely electrified route given the UK wide shortage of DMUs.

 

[Loop & Link]

Not all of them will be in service from May. There will be 10 working diagrams. It makes more sense to use them on busy Liverpool-Wigan/Vic services releasing more DMU's.

Putting them on very lightly loaded Lime St-Warrington BQ services would only release 2 (3 from May) DMU's.

 

[Cotty]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97146/2015/05/05/advanced

Another set of 319s due to move north from Wolverton on Tuesday next week!

 

[childwallblues]

319362 was out this morning on the 0600 LIV-WGN and 0703 return. It was then booked on the 0816 LIV-MIA, 0940 MIA-LIV, 1116 LIV-MIA and 1240 MIA-LIV. I do not know whether it stayed in service in the afternoon.

 

[507 001]

319362 was out this morning on the 0600 LIV-WGN and 0703 return. It was then booked on the 0816 LIV-MIA, 0940 MIA-LIV, 1116 LIV-MIA and 1240 MIA-LIV. I do not know whether it stayed in service in the afternoon.

It was definitely out at 15:20. Passed under me whilst I was on the birdcage.

 

[317 forever]

I hope they will all be refreshed ie repainted and reupholstered with Northern Rail seats before entering service. I also wonder when all LiV - MIA/ MCV/ WGN services will be class 319 daily?