Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
6x4x20m in exchange for 6x2x23m...provided the diagrams work that can only be a benefit.
Neil
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Northern rolling stock changes post electrification
- Thread starter Islineclear3_1
- Start date
- Status
6x4x20m in exchange for 6x2x23m...provided the diagrams work that can only be a benefit.
Neil
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Only lack of stock, Lime Street crews exclusively work the LIV-WBQs (even though in theory they could be worked by Man Vic drivers).
There's also of course the 2 loco hauled diagrams on the Cumbrian, so I don't think there is really anything to complain about re increases in capacity that the cascades 319's will facilitate, despite the TPX 156 requirement.
Last edited:
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
That indeed will keep the laptops from appearing using the travel-to-and-from-work journey time to carry out work-related projects.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 34,241
Northern's subsequent news item here, from Feb 12th: http://www.northernrail.org/news/7597
confirmed the 20 units, as you pointed out the total has been increased by 6 since the January DfT Northern/TPE 'solution' was announced.
I can't find the date of DAB_Move's linked article about the refurbishment/painting etc, but presume it must pre-date the January changes?
Last edited:
Class 170101
On Moderation
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2014
- Messages
- 8,661
How many of the 20 Class 319s have arrived at Northern?
I think it's seven - 319361-5 and two others
Really... take a look at the new trains down South!!
The Box Photter
Member
- Joined
- 24 Mar 2009
- Messages
- 592
Glad to see the 319s are hotly anticipated in the north. As a long-suffering Thameslink/FCC/Thameslink user I can't wait to see the back of them.
As for being quieter and with less vibration than a 156, have a ride in the carriage with the pantograph and the motor bogies underneath. You'll soon be "enjoying" the "319 Roar" and the "neutral section thud" as well as the "lively ride".
If you move into the carriage containing the (only) toilet, you'll have the pleasure of the air compressor starting up at random times (usually every 4-5 mins) that will shake your fillings out and will soon have every fixture & fitting in the carriage buzzing away with a "delightful" harmonic resonance.
The two end carriages offer by far the best environment, so long as you're not wedged in the middle seat of a three. I can also recommend sitting in the front car of the front unit (if two are coupled together) if you want to enjoy any fresh air from the ecologically-sound air conditioning (hopper window vents). It seems that the aerodynamic properties of the class 319 directs air away from the hopper ventilators when at speed, particularly in the middle carriages, so you don't get a pleasing rush of cooling air over your face during the barbecue summers we've enjoyed recently except in the leading carriage.
The one good thing you'll notice up in the north is the fantastic heating system fitted to the class 319s. Its so good that FCC liked to leave it on all year round in many trains and many of the heating units were so happy in their work, they stayed on all year round in certain carriages, even when the heating was off in the rest of the train. My tip would be to avoid sitting in a window seat, even if you desire a panoramic view of "sunset over Chat Moss" from the 3rd of the window you get to look out of. This is because the floor heating ducts are at a cleverly-designed 45 degree angle right where your feet need to be. This means you'll be getting very friendly with either the person opposite doing the "319 two-step" or the person sitting next to you as you are forced to encroach on their assigned "foot deployment area".
I wish you all well as you strive to make the most of living in the provinces and I take up my spectacular space-age seat in the "smarter than Oxbridge" fully air-conditioned, more comfortable for standing passengers, Siemens Class 700 in the very near future.
The 319s do look shiny in their new livery, but as they say, whilst you can't polish a turd, you can roll it in glitter.
Glad to see the 319s are hotly anticipated in the north. As a long-suffering Thameslink/FCC/Thameslink user I can't wait to see the back of them.
As for being quieter and with less vibration than a 156, have a ride in the carriage with the pantograph and the motor bogies underneath. You'll soon be "enjoying" the "319 Roar" and the "neutral section thud" as well as the "lively ride".
If you move into the carriage containing the (only) toilet, you'll have the pleasure of the air compressor starting up at random times (usually every 4-5 mins) that will shake your fillings out and will soon have every fixture & fitting in the carriage buzzing away with a "delightful" harmonic resonance.
The two end carriages offer by far the best environment, so long as you're not wedged in the middle seat of a three. I can also recommend sitting in the front car of the front unit (if two are coupled together) if you want to enjoy any fresh air from the ecologically-sound air conditioning (hopper window vents). It seems that the aerodynamic properties of the class 319 directs air away from the hopper ventilators when at speed, particularly in the middle carriages, so you don't get a pleasing rush of cooling air over your face during the barbecue summers we've enjoyed recently except in the leading carriage.
The one good thing you'll notice up in the north is the fantastic heating system fitted to the class 319s. Its so good that FCC liked to leave it on all year round in many trains and many of the heating units were so happy in their work, they stayed on all year round in certain carriages, even when the heating was off in the rest of the train. My tip would be to avoid sitting in a window seat, even if you desire a panoramic view of "sunset over Chat Moss" from the 3rd of the window you get to look out of. This is because the floor heating ducts are at a cleverly-designed 45 degree angle right where your feet need to be. This means you'll be getting very friendly with either the person opposite doing the "319 two-step" or the person sitting next to you as you are forced to encroach on their assigned "foot deployment area".
I wish you all well as you strive to make the most of living in the provinces and I take up my spectacular space-age seat in the "smarter than Oxbridge" fully air-conditioned, more comfortable for standing passengers, Siemens Class 700 in the very near future.
The 319s do look shiny in their new livery, but as they say, whilst you can't polish a turd, you can roll it in glitter.
Excellent. I'm sure the Northern Novelty will wear off quite soon.
I am intregued, after long discussion on this thread about why 319s couldn't sensibly be reduced to 3 cars, to see it blithely stated that exactly this is to happen to 321s (all 7 of them!) for Scotrail....
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2097834#post2097834
Any thoughts?
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2097834#post2097834
Any thoughts?
Glad to see the 319s are hotly anticipated in the north. As a long-suffering Thameslink/FCC/Thameslink user I can't wait to see the back of them.
As for being quieter and with less vibration than a 156, have a ride in the carriage with the pantograph and the motor bogies underneath. You'll soon be "enjoying" the "319 Roar" and the "neutral section thud" as well as the "lively ride".
If you move into the carriage containing the (only) toilet, you'll have the pleasure of the air compressor starting up at random times (usually every 4-5 mins) that will shake your fillings out and will soon have every fixture & fitting in the carriage buzzing away with a "delightful" harmonic resonance.
The two end carriages offer by far the best environment, so long as you're not wedged in the middle seat of a three. I can also recommend sitting in the front car of the front unit (if two are coupled together) if you want to enjoy any fresh air from the ecologically-sound air conditioning (hopper window vents). It seems that the aerodynamic properties of the class 319 directs air away from the hopper ventilators when at speed, particularly in the middle carriages, so you don't get a pleasing rush of cooling air over your face during the barbecue summers we've enjoyed recently except in the leading carriage.
The one good thing you'll notice up in the north is the fantastic heating system fitted to the class 319s. Its so good that FCC liked to leave it on all year round in many trains and many of the heating units were so happy in their work, they stayed on all year round in certain carriages, even when the heating was off in the rest of the train. My tip would be to avoid sitting in a window seat, even if you desire a panoramic view of "sunset over Chat Moss" from the 3rd of the window you get to look out of. This is because the floor heating ducts are at a cleverly-designed 45 degree angle right where your feet need to be. This means you'll be getting very friendly with either the person opposite doing the "319 two-step" or the person sitting next to you as you are forced to encroach on their assigned "foot deployment area".
I wish you all well as you strive to make the most of living in the provinces and I take up my spectacular space-age seat in the "smarter than Oxbridge" fully air-conditioned, more comfortable for standing passengers, Siemens Class 700 in the very near future.
The 319s do look shiny in their new livery, but as they say, whilst you can't polish a turd, you can roll it in glitter.
Obviously you've never ridden in a 142. What you have described sounds like shear luxury compared to the joys of commuting on a nodding donkey. Toilets you say? Well the 142s have them, but only the brave or foolhardy use them. Heating you say? I'm sure the good folk of Merseyside and Greater Manchester will revel in not only a working heating system, but also one that's not accompanied by a fearce gale blowing through from the doors whenever the unit hits 30mph or more.
Still, once the novelty of the new 700s runs out darn south (I give it 1 to 2 days), we can all look forward to you guys moaning about them still being rammed, the a/c not working as well or to well and obviously how unfair it is that you have to pay so much more for brand new trains running every few seconds, and that are so long you could walk home without the train leaving the station....
Last edited:
Techniquest
Veteran Member
"Very near future"? 700s aren't due for, what, two years? Ages yet!
I'm sure we'll all be enjoying the 319s up in the north, and I have no idea what you're on about with the one third of a window thing. I have never had an issue seeing out of the whole window so I'm confused.
I'm sure we'll all be enjoying the 319s up in the north, and I have no idea what you're on about with the one third of a window thing. I have never had an issue seeing out of the whole window so I'm confused.
The Box Photter
Member
- Joined
- 24 Mar 2009
- Messages
- 592
Obviously you've never ridden in a 142. What you have described sounds like shear luxury compared to the joys of commuting on a nodding donkey. Toilets you say? Well the 142s have them, but only the brave or foolhardy use them. Heating you say? I'm sure the good folk of Merseyside and Greater Manchester will revel in not only a working heating system, but also one that's not accompanied by a fearce gale blowing through from the doors whenever the unit hits 30mph or more.
Still, once the novelty of the new 700s runs out darn south (I give it 1 to 2 days), we can all look forward to you guys moaning about them still being rammed, the a/c not working as well or to well and obviously how unfair it is that you have to pay so much more for brand new trains running every few seconds, and that are so long you could walk home without the train leaving the station....
Touche
I once had to use a toilet on a 323 out of Man Picc. I never knew human waste came in so many interesting colours, or that Mancunians were so agile that they could get it in so many hard to reach places.
I understand that if they link up all the 12 car class 700s you will be able to walk from St Pancras to St Albans, even if there is a core shutdown.
Must go now as the polo ponies are getting restless and I'm sure you must have whippets to de-grease or pigeons that need sexing.
Toodle-pip from the bit where all the money is.
Last edited:
I my view that would be a bad move. More sensible to leave them as 4-car. The Scotrail thing might be because alot of the platforms around Glasgow can only take a max of 6 coaches.
323235
Established Member
well they've made a good start, managing 12 minutes from MIA-MAN and one got to NLW 2 3/4 minutes early. Not sure what has been going on with Wavertree today, some of the MIA-LIV trains were showing as passing or in some instances arriving for example at 34 past and departing at 32 past.
hairyhandedfool
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Apr 2008
- Messages
- 8,837
321s have much less equipment on the non-driving trailer, it is therefore much easier to 'lose it'. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the three remaining cars of the 321 are identical to a 320 (as built).
Although I live in the North I do quite frequently visit the south and use the 319s on both the Brighton line and the Sutton loop. My local trains here in West Yorks also alternate between 321/2s (Doncaster) with 142-4s/150s (Sheffield), and so I am quite used to making the comparisons on an almost daily basis as the 321/2s are almost identical to 319s in their traction equipment and internal passenger environment.
Perhaps we should arrange to send a 142, a 150 and even a 2 car 156 (which some people like but it WILL be in place of a 4 car EMU
) to run in turn, but with random allocation of stock, on a daily basis in a regular Thameslink diagram and you might gain SOME insight into WHY the 319s "are hotly anticipated"!Although I live in the North I do quite frequently visit the south and use the 319s on both the Brighton line and the Sutton loop. My local trains here in West Yorks also alternate between 321/2s (Doncaster) with 142-4s/150s (Sheffield), and so I am quite used to making the comparisons on an almost daily basis as the 321/2s are almost identical to 319s in their traction equipment and internal passenger environment.
Perhaps we should arrange to send a 142, a 150 and even a 2 car 156 (which some people like but it WILL be in place of a 4 car EMU
If you travel in the peak hours on any part of the Thameslink route as frequently as you imply, then you will know just why so many 8 and 12-car trains are running. If the 'Northern Powerhouse' ever gets itself going, then it may one day have sufficient commuter passenger volume to justify longer and more frequent trains, assuming the short platforms are extended for them.
If trains such a 142s, 150s & 156s were sent down for approval, we could try them on the Greenford - West Ealing or the Romford - Upminster branches, (although the residents of Emerson park might object to the amount of noise and PM10s emitted).
10 months at most, possibly less.
We've discussed this at length in the past. In short, the essential equipment is spread across all four carriages. You can't just remove a carriage without relocating any (or all of) traction motors, compressors, toilet retention tanks etc.
Ahhhh brings back memories - I used to always head right to the area under the pantograph.... lots of fun to be had!
I do miss the 319Oh yes, I think that point has sometimes been missed on here, among all the North-South mud-slinging which I don't really want to get involved in or take sides. The reason the 319s are being replaced on Thameslink is so that CAPACITY can be increased and NOT because they are seen as worn out/life expired/knackered etc. Lets hope that they help to grow the traffic in the North where demand has been suppressed by much worse rolling stock.
Firsts be arrives in UK in 5 months, in service in 11 months
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Bald Rick:2097961 said:
Not in passenger service until 2017 though IIRC? I could well be getting mixed up with something else, after all it's getting confusing trying to follow several threads on new trains and cascades.
I think that you may have the 345s in mind for delivery in 2017.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Northern capacity improvements pencilled in for May have been postponed to September or later as a result of the TPE 156 deal. It will also mean Northern will have to split up through services to be able to make capacity improvements and they will have less 156s to use on non-electrified lines (the planned switching of 2 car 142s/150s to 156s could have given up to 30 extra seats on some services.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I challenge you to travel on the 07:17 Manchester-Chester service everyday between now and the autumn. That service (currently operated by a 150) was due to get a larger 156 (from Liverpool-Man Airport) instead with the released 150 then being used for the Todmorden extension. Now as a result of the changes a 142/150 off Chat Moss will be used directly on the Todmorden extension, with no extra capacity for the 07:17 Manchester-Chester. If that service was operated by a pair of 150/1s it could still have more passengers than seats and yet it's operated by a single 150.
There's also examples of some TPE services getting less capacity - 3 car 185s instead of 4 car 170s and 4 car 156s instead of 6 car 185s.
More capacity in Cumbria will be of little comfort to the passengers on services in other areas which are getting less seats or not getting a capacity boost anymore.
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm sorry but I think that's just excessive moaning, we all know that there are loads of services all over the country with real overcrowding issue's, and this will bring significant improvements even if some of it is delayed until September, and yes I know what's like to travel on severely overcrowded services I used to commute between Sheffield and Manchester before EMT managed to get 4 car trains on that section.
The situation with TPX is unfortunate but overall it seems to be about the best available other than actually stopping Chiltern from having the 170's.
Last edited:
So does anyone know for sure which routes are going to suffer when the 156's go thanks to the capacity improvements of the 319's. I am trying to think positive and am treating myself to a trip on a 319 today (Hopefully based on the services I believe they are operating).
- Status