Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[hairyhandedfool]

Definitely??

Definitely.

 

[Emyr]

Here it is....

 

[Chris305]

Yes, I regularly travel on the 07.16 Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport service and this morning it was a 319!

 

[507 001]

Excellent!

 

[Techniquest]

Fantastic! I'll certainly be planning a trip to Liverpool for April (March's available slots are now filled) to enjoy some 319 action

 

[87015]

Deps ex Lime St to

 ***** 03:38 1H40 LVPOOL LS 03:38 No unit 
 ***** 05:16 1H41 LVPOOL LS 05:16 156464  
 ***** 06:16 1H42 LVPOOL LS 06:16 319363  
 ***** 07:16 1H43 LVPOOL LS 07:16 319362  
 ***** 08:16 1H44 LVPOOL LS 08:16 156425  
 ***** 09:16 1H45 LVPOOL LS 09:16 319363  
 ***** 10:16 1H46 LVPOOL LS 10:16 156460  
 ***** 11:16 1H47 LVPOOL LS 11:16 156425  
 ***** 12:15 1H48 LVPOOL LS 12:15 319363  
 ***** 13:16 1H49 LVPOOL LS 13:16 156460  
 ***** 14:16 1H40 LVPOOL LS 14:16 319362  
 ***** 15:16 1H41 LVPOOL LS 15:16 319363  
 ***** 16:16 1H42 LVPOOL LS 16:16 156460  
 ***** 17:13 1H43 LVPOOL LS 17:13 319362  
 ***** 18:14 1H44 LVPOOL LS 18:14 319363  
 ***** 20:16 1H45 LVPOOL LS 20:16 156425

 

[northwichcat]

A mix of comments have appeared on Twitter this morning regarding the 319 introduction on Liverpool-Man Airport. Some people are commenting on the smooth journey, others are saying they don't see what the big fuss is about.

 

[Aldaniti]

A mix of comments have appeared on Twitter this morning regarding the 319 introduction on Liverpool-Man Airport. Some people are commenting on the smooth journey, others are saying they don't see what the big fuss is about.

Neither can I. OK, the first electric services were always going to attract attention from enthusiasts and I can understand that. If I lived near to the Liverpool & Manchester I might even have popped out for a photo myself. Of course, the 319's are going to bring some much needed capacity improvements to the North West which is good. Other than that, as far as normals are concerned, they're a 150 with a pantograph - poor 2+3 seating if you're unlucky enough to be on the wrong side on a busy service (inferior to a 156 which in many cases they'll be replacing) and fairly poor window alignment (ditto 156). I've travelled on a few of these units in the South and I certainly won't be rushing to try one up here!

 

[47802]

Neither can I. OK, the first electric services were always going to attract attention from enthusiasts and I can understand that. If I lived near to the Liverpool & Manchester I might even have popped out for a photo myself. Of course, the 319's are going to bring some much needed capacity improvements to the North West which is good. Other than that, as far as normals are concerned, they're a 150 with a pantograph - poor 2+3 seating if you're unlucky enough to be on the wrong side on a busy service (inferior to a 156 which in many cases they'll be replacing) and fairly poor window alignment (ditto 156). I've travelled on a few of these units in the South and I certainly won't be rushing to try one up here!

But on the other hand they are quieter, have 4 carriages, have had a reasonable makeover and are not a Railbus which you certainly might get on some of the other services they will eventually work later in the year.

 

[po8crg]

I suspect that the timetable change will be more appealing to passengers. If they start saving 8-10 minutes off Liverpool Manchester times, which seems to be the suggested improvement, then commuters will definitely notice the extra 15-20 minutes they have every day.

 

[Starmill]

Fantastic, round of applause everyone!

Does anyone know it it is (still?) the case that they will not be working at weekends?

 

[caliburn53]

looks like express trains only for the forseable future while us at the ordinary stations will still have the good old pacer units to trundle us to liverpool and manchester

 

[po8crg]

looks like express trains only for the forseable future while us at the ordinary stations will still have the good old pacer units to trundle us to liverpool and manchester

As soon as Manchester Victoria electrification is complete, the stopper will be going over to 319s as well. While there are wires all over the throat, there aren't any over the platforms yet.

Northern will also need some more 319s to come up from Thameslink. But we're talking months, not years.

 

[Aldaniti]

But on the other hand they are quieter, have 4 carriages, have had a reasonable makeover and are not a Railbus which you certainly might get on some of the other services they will eventually work later in the year.

Aye, certainly an improvement on a Pacer, I grant you. Then again, a wheelbarrow would be better than a Pacer.

 

[northwichcat]

Northern will also need some more 319s to come up from Thameslink. But we're talking months, not years.

If it's not done by May then DfT's 'plan' for TPE/Northern post-170s going to Chiltern falls to pieces.

 

[AM9]

A mix of comments have appeared on Twitter this morning regarding the 319 introduction on Liverpool-Man Airport. Some people are commenting on the smooth journey, others are saying they don't see what the big fuss is about.

Apart from Northern trying to sell something, where is this 'big fuss' being made? Has anybody complained about them yet?

 

[ianhr]

I can't see many people complaining. The only possible advantage the 156s may have over 319s is that they have tables but in every other way the EMUs are better: quieter, less vibration, no pervasive diesel smell, better acceleration, higher top speed.

They are more than 150s with a pantograph. Although they share the MarkIII suburban unit bodyshell there are far MORE seats, and the spacing of the face to back seats is much better, i.e. anyone bigger than a 5 year old child can actually get their legs behind the seat in front without sitting sideways!

Lime Street will be cleaner and quieter too once the Wigan and ManVic DMUs have gone!

 

[Starmill]

Tables, 2+2 seats, carpets and a window view should all be achievable with the 319s. They'd essentially be perfect then for this route. Maybe a bit more luggage space. They're better than a pacer, by miles. But If I were doing Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport I'd still rather the 156!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tables, 2+2 seats, carpets and a window view should all be achievable with the 319s. They'd essentially be perfect then for this route. Maybe a bit more luggage space. They're better than a pacer, by miles. But If I were doing Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport I'd still rather the 156!

I'd rather a double 156. I'd rather a 319 than a single 156. 2+2 with tables is all very well if you can't actually get a seat!

Neil

 

[railhead56]

Anyone know which emu(s) travelled from Wolverton to Allerton yesterday? Or which is going to Stockport Car MD from Allerton tonight per RTT? Thanks. First post.

 

[Aldaniti]

Tables, 2+2 seats, carpets and a window view should all be achievable with the 319s. They'd essentially be perfect then for this route. Maybe a bit more luggage space. They're better than a pacer, by miles. But If I were doing Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport I'd still rather the 156!

Indeed. I'm not sure about tables on commuter trains, but the rest should be minimum spec. stuff these days. If it comes to a choice between a 319 or a 156, I'll take the 156 too.

 

[ianhr]

Tables, 2+2 seats, carpets and a window view should all be achievable with the 319s. They'd essentially be perfect then for this route. Maybe a bit more luggage space. They're better than a pacer, by miles. But If I were doing Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport I'd still rather the 156!

I have the impression from the new franchise spec that Northern might be expected to offer 2 tiers of service with better quality stock for the longer limited stop runs e.g.Liverpool-MIA, Blackpool-MIA; and so there could be a case for a re-hab of the 319s operating these, with as you suggest new seats, carpets, tables, more luggage space, and perhaps even air-con for those that like it!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am still struggling to comprehend the term "Class 319 cascade" when an accepted definition of "cascade" is...
"A mass of something that falls in copious quantities"

What is the copious quantity of Class 319 units destined to reach Northern Rail in this first tranche?

 

[northwichcat]

The only possible advantage the 156s may have over 319s is that they have tables but in every other way the EMUs are better: quieter, less vibration, no pervasive diesel smell, better acceleration, higher top speed.

So wider seats with arm rests isn't an advantage? I think it's a massive advantage to not have your arm squashed against the side of the train when you're sat in a window seat but maybe you don't like sitting comfortably?

As the 319s aren't air conditioned and will be serving stations where 185s may be stopped on the next platform I'm not sure they'll escape any diesel smells when windows are open or for that matter when they are on the section of Chat Moss which runs right next to the M62.

 

[ianhr]

I am still struggling to comprehend the term "Class 319 cascade" when an accepted definition of "cascade" is...
"A mass of something that falls in copious quantities"

What is the copious quantity of Class 319 units destined to reach Northern Rail in this first tranche?

Ha ha! well if Northern do get ALL the 319s there will certainly be copious quantities......far more than they really need for years at the current glacial pace of the electrification program!

 

[D365]

I am still struggling to comprehend the term "Class 319 cascade" when an accepted definition of "cascade" is...
"A mass of something that falls in copious quantities"

What is the copious quantity of Class 319 units destined to reach Northern Rail in this first tranche?

AIUI seven units are with Northern so far. Seven more have been claimed by London Midland as a like-for-like replacement for their remaining 321 fleet which is transferring to ScotRail - for the moment this looks to be a short-term arrangement.

Quick fact-finding search claims your first tranche to total 14 units. But there are 29 Class 387s to be delivered to Southern/Thameslink, so 21 units accounted for so far out of 86 in the class, available when the Thameslink '700' duly settles into service...

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Will the 319s be used on Lime St to Man Vic services does anyone know?

 

[po8crg]

Will the 319s be used on Lime St to Man Vic services does anyone know?

Yes. But the wires aren't up at Victoria station yet.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

looks like express trains only for the forseable future while us at the ordinary stations will still have the good old pacer units to trundle us to liverpool and manchester

Nothing to stop the Warrington BQ stopper going electric NOW.
Except lack of stock/crews.

 

[northwichcat]

Quick fact-finding search claims your first tranche to total 14 units. But there are 29 Class 387s to be delivered to Southern/Thameslink, so 21 units accounted for so far out of 86 in the class, available when the Thameslink '700' duly settles into service...

Should be 20 x 319s now. DfT allocated another 6 as compensation for forcing 6 x 156s to be loaned to TPE on a daily basis. How well that works in practice is another question.