Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[hairyhandedfool]

....whilst Eccles whilst busier is also served by the Metrolink which goes to more popular areas in Manchester than Victoria.

A fair number of people only use the tram because the trains are every hour.

 

[Starmill]

A cynic, or realist, might say that Eccles was only on Metrolink because it meant funding would be made available due to Eccles being in places a deprived area, when what it was built for was to connect Salford Quays to Metrolink (which it does quite well). Eccles passengers are better off on the bus or train - cheaper and quicker.

Quite. And look at how far the Eccles line extends from the city centre? The only one of the termini not without the M60.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

And Eccles to city centre by Metrolink is painfully slow - about 25 mins.,, compared with about 8 mins. by train to Vctoria.

Outside the peak hours, the Liverpool Lime St - Warrington Bank Quay service carries very few passengers between Earlestown & Warrington - most trains are almost empty. Two stopping trains per hour between Lime St. & Manchester would be far more useful.

I think that when noting the 8 minute rail service from Eccles to Manchester, one must bear in mind how many of these services run each hour.

Incidentally, what is the current Metrolink frequency service from Eccles Metrolink station?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

...Incidentally, what is the current Metrolink frequency service from Eccles Metrolink station?

Every Twelve minutes for most of the day, every fifteen at the beginning and end of the day, not sure about Sundays though.

 

[Starmill]

Every Twelve minutes for most of the day, every fifteen at the beginning and end of the day, not sure about Sundays though.

It's actually every 12 minutes all day Monday to Saturday, and every 15 minutes before 0800 and after 1730 Sundays, every 12 minutes between these times.

 

[northwichcat]

Eccles-Manchester by tram is actually slower than by bus.

Also worth noting that outside the operation of the separate MediaCity service the Eccles services go via MediaCity, so are even slower.

 

[po8crg]

Eccles is hardly the natural end for that line; it could run to Irlam or even Cadishead if it didn't take such a long winding route through Salford Quays.

If TfGM ever do tram-trains to Wigan, they're likely to run a new tram line through Salford out to the Crescent (paths into Victoria are going to be tough for a Metrolink-frequency service) and there might be an opportunity to put in a link from Langworthy to that line, which would make a terrific shortcut for Eccles trams and would then make extensions realistic.

 

[Geeves]

Once Eccles gets its half hourly service you should see those passenger numbers skyrocket. 2.40 return and 8 mins none stop to Manchester, cant argue! Quite a number of people left the station today because it was so long till the next train.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Once Eccles gets its half hourly service you should see those passenger numbers skyrocket. 2.40 return and 8 mins none stop to Manchester, cant argue! Quite a number of people left the station today because it was so long till the next train.

A 30 minute wait when the new half-hourly rail service actually starts on a cold station is not as good as a 12 minute wait at the Metrolink stop, which incidentally is far more easier for bus passengers to make the required interchange, if coming in from surrounding areas.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Outside the peak hours, the Liverpool Lime St - Warrington Bank Quay service carries very few passengers between Earlestown & Warrington - most trains are almost empty. Two stopping trains per hour between Lime St. & Manchester would be far more useful.

The Earlestown-Victoria service isn't much busier.
Some people get off the stopper at Earlestown/Newton le Willows and change to/from the following ATW Piccadilly service!
It might change when Victoria gets its trams back and stops being a bomb site.
The facilities at Victoria continue to worsen as they block off more of the station for upgrades.
I did see the new barriers were all lit up last week, being tested.
Not that that is an enhancement to be proud of.

 

[dggar]

Quite. And look at how far the Eccles line extends from the city centre? The only one of the termini not without the M60.

Is that without in the sense of " a green hill far away. "

Media City & East Didsbury are within the M60

 

[WatcherZero]

Within the walls, without the walls. Old usage though.

 

[Class 170101]

Surely a service would have to run between Warrington Bank Quay and Liverpool as it would use the South to west Chord at Warington and if withdrawn then surely closure procedures would apply for said chord?

 

[deltic08]

Surely a service would have to run between Warrington Bank Quay and Liverpool as it would use the South to west Chord at Warington and if withdrawn then surely closure procedures would apply for said chord?

No as there is plenty of freight and occasional diversions using the chord.

 

[martynbristow]

Passengers could well change there habits when the 319s come in. A Northern 156 on a stopper is painful, it feels like your going to have to get out and push :/

 

[Jonny]

Passengers could well change there habits when the 319s come in. A Northern 156 on a stopper is painful, it feels like your going to have to get out and push :/

Agreed, although I only have limited 'haulage' on a 319 (with FCC), I can say that it was very lively when running on AC power.

 

[martynbristow]

Agreed, although I only have limited 'haulage' on a 319 (with FCC), I can say that it was very lively when running on AC power.

Well as long as it doesn't sound like its in pain then brilliant.
The interior shots look good too my memory of Northern stock is that of dinginess, the pictures floating round have nice bright lighting and more appropriate seating making with facing seats making it feel more spacious. How long it will last i don't know
Looking forward to the first run

 

[hairyhandedfool]

A 30 minute wait when the new half-hourly rail service actually starts on a cold station is not as good as a 12 minute wait at the Metrolink stop, which incidentally is far more easier for bus passengers to make the required interchange, if coming in from surrounding areas.

What you have to bear in mind is that people turn up at a tram stop whenever they like because of the frequency, but they have to put up with a 30 minute plus journey. With the railway people get to know the schedule, they can check the running online, and with apps, and they can turn up when the train is due (rather than just after one has gone), thus the wait plus journey time for the railway is much less than for Metrolink in most cases.

The vast majority of buses in Eccles go to Manchester anyway, so the interchange theory is a bit of a red herring, especially as many buses are quicker than the tram and more frequent (every ten minutes on quite a few routes).

Everyone in Eccles knows that the tram only goes to Eccles because it's the only way GMPTE (TfGM) could get the necesary figures for a tram line into the Quays.

 

[AM9]

Agreed, although I only have limited 'haulage' on a 319 (with FCC), I can say that it was very lively when running on AC power.

I suspect that jcollins will be along here soon to say that 319s aren't as snappy as 323s, (or 350s) and he is right. The 323s are 75mph max inner suburban trains that are of a basic design that is 10 years younger so they have ac motors. The 350s have nearly twice as much traction power as the 319s and ac motors to boot. But the 319s are sturdy MKIII construction, think 150s without the thrash and rattle, and can get to 100mph given a fair run.
On DC they can be dogs especially when the voltage is low, but they don't seem to have any problems starting from City Thameslink and climbing immediately up the 1:29 to Blackfriars.

 

[broadbander]

The 323s are 75mph max inner suburban trains that are of a basic design that is 10 years younger so they have ac motors.

The 323s are 90mph trains.

 

[notadriver]

I've noticed the motors of some 319s are loud - perhaps too loud. Can anything be done about this ?

 

[AM9]

I've noticed the motors of some 319s are loud - perhaps too loud. Can anything be done about this ?

If you mean the normal DC motor whirr/whine. Well that is a combination of commutator noise and final drive pinion gear teeth wear. If the motors get a full refurb, they could recut the gears and the commutator should quieten down when new brushes bed in.
If it's the higher pitch constant tone than that could be the ac/DC converters which is just a feature of the design, much like the higher pitched tone of the Electrostars or the spaceship warble of the Desiros.
At least the 319s don't seem to have the jolt on starting like the well-worn EE507 motors on MKI EMUs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 323s are 90mph trains.

OK, thanks, noted.

 

[childwallblues]

Is it just on this forum that talk of this 1/2 hourly service appears or is this from an official railway source? I ask the question as I have never seen anything outside this forum about it.
Personally as a user of the LIV-WBQ service on a regular basis I think that it should be extended south to Crewe. This would give stations on the newly electrified line direct access to Crewe. Also Winsford, Hartford and Acton Bridge access to Warrington and St Helens. This would almost certainly cut car journeys into Warrington and stop the massive traffic queues from the South on the A49.

 

[Whistler40145]

Crewe to Liverpool Lime Street via Warrington Bank Quay sounds like a very good idea.

 

[notadriver]

If you mean the normal DC motor whirr/whine. Well that is a combination of commutator noise and final drive pinion gear teeth wear. If the motors get a full refurb, they could recut the gears and the commutator should quieten down when new brushes bed in.

If it's the higher pitch constant tone than that could be the ac/DC converters which is just a feature of the design, much like the higher pitched tone of the Electrostars or the spaceship warble of the Desiros.

Thanks for your reply. It's the normal DC motor whine which I normally enjoy but this was set was excessively loud and I could was still loud when I moved away to sit in the next coach.

 

[edwin_m]

No as there is plenty of freight and occasional diversions using the chord.

But is this one the only scheduled passenger service, therefore requiring a closure process if it ceases? Alternatively it could become a Parliamentary, perhaps the stock on its way to or from the Ellesmere Port service.

 

[northwichcat]

A 30 minute wait when the new half-hourly rail service actually starts on a cold station is not as good as a 12 minute wait at the Metrolink stop, which incidentally is far more easier for bus passengers to make the required interchange, if coming in from surrounding areas.

Difference between Metrolink and rail is Metrolink is advertised as 'every 12 minutes' while rail is advertised at specific times, so with rail if you're on time you know you aren't going to arrive on the platform to see a train pulling away.

Some people get off the stopper at Earlestown/Newton le Willows and change to/from the following ATW Piccadilly service!

If you want to do a journey like Rainhill-Piccadilly a change at Newton-le-Willows eastbound is the best option.

 

[AM9]

Thanks for your reply. It's the normal DC motor whine which I normally enjoy but this was set was excessively loud and I could was still loud when I moved away to sit in the next coach.

You can normally tell if it is the gearing as when the train is running with a very light 'throttle' and it rides bumps in the track, the whine of the gears comes and goes sometimes sounding like a chirp or intermittently sounding very quietly.

 

[Whistler40145]

edwin_m, you could run a parly over the curve, but I expect the stock for the Ellesmere Port service comes off Chester depot.

 

[northwichcat]

edwin_m, you could run a parly over the curve, but I expect the stock for the Ellesmere Port service comes off Chester depot.

Chester depot is an Arriva Trains Wales depot.

The stock for the Ellesmere Port Northern services is based at either Allerton or Newton Heath and worked by Lime Street crews.