Dosnt affect them YET...
I would have hoped that some people would consider that if something was happening elsewhere in the company its only a matter of time before it happens in their area.
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Northern rail strike ?
- Thread starter wigwamman
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Dosnt affect them YET...
I would have hoped that some people would consider that if something was happening elsewhere in the company its only a matter of time before it happens in their area.
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Well that is the key word, though if that was their plan why go out and recruit a load of new employees?
I'm not saying its their plan at the moment but if it works in the other side then in the future it may be considered in other areas.
Plus if it works for northern then why not other TOCs and that begins a race to the bottom.
hairyhandedfool
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To an extent, there are a few jobs agency staff cannot do yet, however, Northern want employed staff to believe their jobs are safe, that agency staff are not taking over and that the unions are stirring up trouble for no reason. Seemingly the reality is quite different.
To put it in a way that a recent Northern staff retail brief so eloquently did.....
"It's all about image".
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Uncle Bob and the RMT and the word resolving . hmmmmm
:roll:Well I have been balloted 4 times in the last 18 months and despite a mandate for industrial action in each case have never had a strike.
But hey, lets not let ignorance or foolishness get in the way, because i am sure you knew that strikes are not undertaken lightly or at the drop of a hat like the press would have you believe. You new that didn't you?
Hopefully this decision will lead to further productive and sensible talks aimed at resolving the issue.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Whilst I am aware that it is often said that strike action is only envisaged when all other negotiating procedures have been exhausted, it does seem recently to be the case that the implied reference to strike action is now a tool to be used as a matter of moving matters along in the normal negotiation period.
hairyhandedfool
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According to Northern's latest 'staff brief', there were 2,294 employees who were asked to vote, of which "only a third" voted for strike action (that is statistics for you!). This implies that very nearly half Northern's employees could be striking.
It's a two way street, both sides hold out for the best deal they can get, but, just as the unions are looking at strike action more often, the companies are taking it to this stage more often. On this occasion, Northern have actively been trying to persuade staff to vote against strike action, which shows just how far they are prepared to go.
Its actually more that the press pick up in it more at the moment as many papers are very anti union.
Whenever there are talks between union and company strike action is always possible but rarely comes to anything. That still dosnt prevent the press from reporting a strike as imminent.
I think I posted this earlier on this thread but a good example is a while ago when I drove for southern someone saw an article in a paper stating that we were striking in response to a dispute. It was the first we all knew of it and when we asked our union reps they were just as confused. All that was happening was that the union was in talks with managment over a couple if issues. Strike action hasn't been discussed and talks were going well but the press had got hold of the talks and decided to inflate the situation. No ballot ever happened and the issues reached a compromise in talks.
Don't believe everything you read in the papers!
Silv1983
Member
Some fantastic reporting by the MEN today on the matter as per usual. Full of contradiciton and mis-information.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
The actual percentage who voted for strike action is 57.19%, yet the RMT are claiming it's 'almost 58%': http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=174024 A bit misleading.
It is almost 58, its also almost 60 depending on what the 'almost' relates to. They could also say 'over 57' aswell.
Its still clearly over 50 which is all that actually counts...
Geargrinder
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I'm not in the rail industry - but trying to get there. I can speak from working in road haulage that agencies will creep in more and more unless you stop them, in the end you might find yourself as an agency worker...
Personally if this affected the company I worked for I would vote for any action which would help make that company think twice, and protect everyone else's terms and conditions.
Once you're sat at home on a zero hours contract waiting for the phone to ring its too late.
Personally if this affected the company I worked for I would vote for any action which would help make that company think twice, and protect everyone else's terms and conditions.
Once you're sat at home on a zero hours contract waiting for the phone to ring its too late.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Normally you'd give the nearest whole number (57% voted for industrial action) or round it to the nearest 5 (over 55% voted for industrial action) or nearest 10 (approaching 60% voted for industrial action.)
I agree it doesn't make any difference to the outcome. However, doing that doesn't make the RMT come across as providing reliable facts to non-RMT members.
Depends on how you define 'reliable'. It is certainly factually accurate-it is still almost 58. They havnt lied and to be honest journalists are far more flexible with the truth than the RMT have been here! As are politicians.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Read this one alongside it and then you might have a balanced view: http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=174024
What hasn't been mentioned is the Northern Rail franchise extension beyond 2014 hasn't been confirmed but it has been confirmed that the new franchise will start in February 2016. If an extension cannot be agreed between Northern and DfT then Northern employees will find themselves being transferred to a new company next year, which may by a company set up by DOR which will have no intention of running the new franchise.
That's not really a surprise though is it? The press exaggerate the facts to give an anti strike story which their readers will appreciate whilst the union exaggerate the facts in favour if the strike to put their point across. Its pretty basic stuff and hardly surprising. Read what political parties say leading up to elections. Exactly the same.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
The press would also approach the affected TOC first for information. It is the TOC that the readers are a customer of and also if a strike does go ahead it will be the TOC who will say what limited service will run.
Ok, what is your point? The union don't need to contact the TOC as they have been in communication with them already? The union don't have anything to do with what service runs and have no need to give info to the passengers, that's not what they are there for.
hairyhandedfool
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Really? If you read Northern Rail 'staff briefs', 'newsletters' and 'company magazines', it's not the impression you would be left with.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
That what the TOC say is more relevant for the passengers to read than what the union say.
I'm not sure how that's relevant to what I said. I was referring to what parties the press would have contacted first with regards to getting information for news stories.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Nothing has been put on either the DfT or Northern website confirming the franchise extension has been agreed and signed off. In fact I think c2c are one of the few franchises where that has happened.
With the proposed new electric services starting in May 2014 I don't think Northern is the easiest one to just change the end date for and leave the other terms the same.
sheff'd victoria
Member
I am fully supporting the RMT in their action, I am well aware of strike action as I have myself been on a number of them, both in the railway and bus industry, with the latter a 3 week strike.
Having looked on twitter the comments from passgengers seem to fully support the strike action, and in some cases the passgengers seem to be delighted that Northern Rail wont be running
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Having looked on twitter the comments from passgengers seem to fully support the strike action, and in some cases the passgengers seem to be delighted that Northern Rail wont be running
Judging by the passenger comments on Twitter they seem to be supporting the removal of G4S staff in Manchester but don't seem to be aware of who trainpeople are or what they do so aren't really supporting the removal of the temporary contract staff as G4S have had a long term contract.
AnonymousUser1
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but by allowing agency workers the company, and theunion cna contionue to spout the guff that is spouted by the CWU about how good T+Cs are for staff, plus there is a the reality of proagmatism vs dogmatism in terms of work .
the railways despite being 'private' appear to be stuck with a 'public sector' sector them and us attitude to management and how the job runs ...
and 'we've all ways done it this way' ...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
however for the unions to do that they have to reach out and engage with agency staff rather than the lal-la land there is in RMG between 'postmen' , 'employed casuals' and agency staff
the CWU proudly claim that no RMG Staff are on minimum wage zero ohour contracts " unlike TNT"
so why , every night, do 60 -120 agency staff on 6.90 or 7.09 an hour troop into the PFW national hub ... and several mornings a week a another variable number of agency staff on 6.19 an hour troop in ...
sheff'd victoria
Member
Bit more PR from the RMT would not go a miss.
Their has been very little on the local TV either from the Beeb or ITV on the strike action, most of the news has come via the socal media
Well have strike dates actually been confirmed yet? A 'yes' result in the ballot dosnt mean that the strike will go ahead, it means that enough members support strike action that when the union now talk to management about these issues they will be taken more seriously knowing that the workforce feel strongly enough against the policy that they are willing to down tools over it.
This strike may well go ahead but the ballot result may also be enough for meaningful talks to happen and prevent any walkouts.
No point having it all over the news about a possible strike when they can't confirm dates yet.
(Apologies if they have announced dates but I was under the impression that the result had only just been returned?)
sheff'd victoria
Member
I am aware of this, what I was trying to point out is that this end of the Pennines their has been nothing much about the ballot at all or the fact that the RMT are in meaningful talks with Northern Rail
But there is nothing to report at the moment. It is an internal matter between the TOC and the union at the moment as they try to settle the dispute. There is nothing news worthy to tell the public at this stage.
The only difference between now and a few weeks back is that the union now know how much support there is from their members. This isn't really 'news'.
I'm sure that when there is something to report it will be reported.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Added to BBC News at 14:15 today: "Railway workers have voted in favour of strike action over the use of casual staff by Northern Rail." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22598000
sheff'd victoria
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