Northern Rail Short Faring

[schick04]

I was caught short faring on a northern rail service. I travel from Darwen to Salford central and back every day and have been regularly short faring my journey with a ticket from Salford crescent. When caught I said that I’d made a mistake when purchasing the ticket. I know this is wrong and I massively regret doing it. It was a stupid thing to have been doing and I completely acknowledge that. It’s a standard story of money being tight. However I’m the main earner in my family and have a young daughter so am incredibly worried about prosecution.

I’ve had a letter (attached) stating that they will be investigating and I need to provide evidence or face prosecution. I know that when they look at my purchase history, they will find that I’ve been doing this for the last year and there is a pattern of fare evasion of roughly 100+ occasions.

I know I’m in a bad position of completely my own making but I wanted to ask for some advice. My intention is to now purchase a full season ticket and respond in an upfront and honest way, in hopes that both taking responsibility and buying an annual season ticket to prove I’ve got no intention of doing it again would be enough to convince them to allow me to settle the costs rather than face prosecution.

1) do you think this is the best course of action or should I not reference my history of short faring in my response?
2) is there anything else I could do that might make them less likely to prosecute me?

Thanks in advance.

 

[WesternLancer]

I was caught short faring on a northern rail service. I travel from Darwen to Salford central and back every day and have been regularly short faring my journey with a ticket from Salford crescent. When caught I said that I’d made a mistake when purchasing the ticket. I know this is wrong and I massively regret doing it. It was a stupid thing to have been doing and I completely acknowledge that. It’s a standard story of money being tight. However I’m the main earner in my family and have a young daughter so am incredibly worried about prosecution.

I’ve had a letter (attached) stating that they will be investigating and I need to provide evidence or face prosecution. I know that when they look at my purchase history, they will find that I’ve been doing this for the last year and there is a pattern of fare evasion of roughly 100+ occasions.

I know I’m in a bad position of completely my own making but I wanted to ask for some advice. My intention is to now purchase a full season ticket and respond in an upfront and honest way, in hopes that both taking responsibility and buying an annual season ticket to prove I’ve got no intention of doing it again would be enough to convince them to allow me to settle the costs rather than face prosecution.

1) do you think this is the best course of action or should I not reference my history of short faring in my response?
2) is there anything else I could do that might make them less likely to prosecute me?

Thanks in advance.

Welcome. You will get some good advice here.

You have some time before their deadline to reply I see so you can take the time to get your response as good as it can be. People here will check your wording of a draft reply before you send it if you think that will be of help.

Based on what we regularly see on here, If you engage with them using the usual advice given on this forum about how to best reply to this sort of letter there is a reasonably strong chance that they will not progress this to prosecution and you can persuade them to offer you an out of court settlement. Have a look at a few other examples.

Buying a valid season ticket for your regular journey is a good idea as it’s something you can say you’ve done to change your ways and convince them you won’t do this again, which is one of the things they want to see. It will save you money too of course. If you are not sure Do a bit of research as to what the best season ticket is for you, or ask here, or at a ticket office.

 

[AlterEgo]

Northern don't usually bother trawling historic purchases. Don't reference them in your reply, and especially not as they haven't asked about them specifically in their letter to you.

 

[schick04]

Northern don't usually bother trawling historic purchases. Don't reference them in your reply, and especially not as they haven't asked about them specifically in their letter to you.

Hi. Thanks for this. Do you have some experience with this? I’m nervous about making it worse if I’m not up front and then they find it later.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi. Thanks for this. Do you have some experience with this? I’m nervous about making it worse if I’m not up front and then they find it later.

The usual advice is get your wording right in such a way as to apologise for what has happened without actively admitting there were other occasions. If they then check your purchase records they will ask about other occasions and you can address that directly if they do.

however you should feel comfortable with what you want to say to them in my view. It’s you in the situation of course.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi. Thanks for this. Do you have some experience with this? I’m nervous about making it worse if I’m not up front and then they find it later.

I don't think we have ever seen it on the forum. Northern don't do this.

You don't need to be up front; just respond to the letter, which is about the time you were stopped and nothing else. It is not in your interests to offer gushing confessions to stuff they didn't ask about. If they do investigate and find more short faring, they will ask you about that. But our experience is they don't.

 

[duffield]

I was caught short faring on a northern rail service. I travel from Darwen to Salford central and back every day and have been regularly short faring my journey with a ticket from Salford crescent. When caught I said that I’d made a mistake when purchasing the ticket. I know this is wrong and I massively regret doing it. It was a stupid thing to have been doing and I completely acknowledge that. It’s a standard story of money being tight. However I’m the main earner in my family and have a young daughter so am incredibly worried about prosecution.

I’ve had a letter (attached) stating that they will be investigating and I need to provide evidence or face prosecution. I know that when they look at my purchase history, they will find that I’ve been doing this for the last year and there is a pattern of fare evasion of roughly 100+ occasions.

I know I’m in a bad position of completely my own making but I wanted to ask for some advice. My intention is to now purchase a full season ticket and respond in an upfront and honest way, in hopes that both taking responsibility and buying an annual season ticket to prove I’ve got no intention of doing it again would be enough to convince them to allow me to settle the costs rather than face prosecution.

1) do you think this is the best course of action or should I not reference my history of short faring in my response?
2) is there anything else I could do that might make them less likely to prosecute me?

Thanks in advance.

To summarise bits of the previous posts: Apologise. Don't lie (no "this is a one off" type stuff). But don't address any questions they have not asked. That's it. If you follow that guidance you will almost certainly get an offer of an out of court settlement at some stage. But if they ask you about anything else later you can address that then.

 

[MotCO]

To summarise bits of the previous posts: Apologise. Don't lie (no "this is a one off" type stuff). But don't address any questions they have not asked. That's it. If you follow that guidance you will almost certainly get an offer of an out of court settlement at some stage. But if they ask you about anything else later you can address that then.

I would add that Northern would be pleased to learn that you have learnt your lesson by buying a season ticket. They want assurances that you won't do this again, and this will provide them with that assurance.

 

[WesternLancer]

I was caught short faring on a northern rail service. I travel from Darwen to Salford central and back every day and have been regularly short faring my journey with a ticket from Salford crescent. When caught I said that I’d made a mistake when purchasing the ticket. I know this is wrong and I massively regret doing it. It was a stupid thing to have been doing and I completely acknowledge that. It’s a standard story of money being tight. However I’m the main earner in my family and have a young daughter so am incredibly worried about prosecution.

I’ve had a letter (attached) stating that they will be investigating and I need to provide evidence or face prosecution. I know that when they look at my purchase history, they will find that I’ve been doing this for the last year and there is a pattern of fare evasion of roughly 100+ occasions.

I know I’m in a bad position of completely my own making but I wanted to ask for some advice. My intention is to now purchase a full season ticket and respond in an upfront and honest way, in hopes that both taking responsibility and buying an annual season ticket to prove I’ve got no intention of doing it again would be enough to convince them to allow me to settle the costs rather than face prosecution.

1) do you think this is the best course of action or should I not reference my history of short faring in my response?
2) is there anything else I could do that might make them less likely to prosecute me?

Thanks in advance.

I can paste the ‘ general advice usually given’ to your thread later on which may help you. Just not easy to do from a phone.

 

[furlong]

Something short and simple such as: I'm very sorry for what happened (don't mention any details or any excuse) and I've now bought a season ticket so it won't happen again. I'm willing to pay the money outstanding ('money' avoids having to decide if it's 'fare' or 'fares' and covers you whether it's one or more instances they find - or you can say 'the money I owe') with a contribution to your costs if you'd please let me know how much that is.

 

[WesternLancer]

I was caught short faring on a northern rail service. I travel from Darwen to Salford central and back every day and have been regularly short faring my journey with a ticket from Salford crescent. When caught I said that I’d made a mistake when purchasing the ticket. I know this is wrong and I massively regret doing it. It was a stupid thing to have been doing and I completely acknowledge that. It’s a standard story of money being tight. However I’m the main earner in my family and have a young daughter so am incredibly worried about prosecution.

I’ve had a letter (attached) stating that they will be investigating and I need to provide evidence or face prosecution. I know that when they look at my purchase history, they will find that I’ve been doing this for the last year and there is a pattern of fare evasion of roughly 100+ occasions.

I know I’m in a bad position of completely my own making but I wanted to ask for some advice. My intention is to now purchase a full season ticket and respond in an upfront and honest way, in hopes that both taking responsibility and buying an annual season ticket to prove I’ve got no intention of doing it again would be enough to convince them to allow me to settle the costs rather than face prosecution.

1) do you think this is the best course of action or should I not reference my history of short faring in my response?
2) is there anything else I could do that might make them less likely to prosecute me?

Thanks in advance.

Further to previous messages and the advice on wording in post #10 - in case it is of help here is a copy of advice often given on the forum from an experienced forum member:

---------------------

You committed a criminal offence by travelling with an invalid ticket and railway companies are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. The good news is they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

Next, what happens is the railway company will write to you. The letter will go to the address that you gave them / on any of your ID they checked so you need to be able to access hard copy post at that address as they often send things that way (but also check e-mail and spam). It is extremely important that you reply, and you'll only have a limited time to do so..

When you receive the letter post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. You'll find lots of example letters you can use in this section of the forum but the reply basically needs to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident and will not do this again
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the railway company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter

The railway will probably offer you an out of court settlement. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare for the journey you made at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you purchased. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically £150. They will also be likely to audit your online ticket purchase history and if this shows you've purchased other tickets that were not valid (eg railcard discounted tickets when you did not have a valid railcard, or tickets for only par of the journey, or tickets bought after boarding the train you travelled on ) they will probably factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement offer. Depending on how many journeys you've made over the period concerned this could end up being expensive.

Settlements usually have to be paid in full within a few days of them being offered so if money is tight you might want to think about how you will raise the sum required at short notice.

 

[schick04]

Hi everyone. Thanks so much for all the help and advice. I have drafted an email below:

Hello,

Further to the letter I have received following the incident of 5th November, I’d like to offer my sincere apologies. I understand the importance and absolute requirement to travel with a valid ticket and want to assure you that this will not happen again.

I am keen to pay the money outstanding for the full journey from Salford Central to Darwen along with a contribution to your costs, if you could please let me know how much that is.

I have also since purchased an annual season ticket for my journey to ensure that there will be absolutely no repeat of this incident. I have attached details of my annual ticket for your reassurance.

Kind regards,

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi everyone. Thanks so much for all the help and advice. I have drafted an email below:

Hello,

Further to the letter I have received following the incident of 5th November, I’d like to offer my sincere apologies. I understand the importance and absolute requirement to travel with a valid ticket and want to assure you that this will not happen again.

I am keen to pay the money outstanding for the full journey from Salford Central to Darwen along with a contribution to your costs, if you could please let me know how much that is.

I have also since purchased an annual season ticket for my journey to ensure that there will be absolutely no repeat of this incident. I have attached details of my annual ticket for your reassurance.

Kind regards,

I'd swap paragraphs 2 and 3 over so that it says something like

Hello,

Further to the letter I have received following the incident of 5th November, I’d like to offer my sincere apologies. I understand the importance and absolute requirement to travel with a valid ticket and want to assure you that this will not happen again.

I have also since purchased an annual season ticket for my journey to ensure that there will be absolutely no repeat of this incident. I have attached details of my annual ticket for your reassurance.

I am keen to pay the money outstanding for the full journey from Salford Central to Darwen along with a contribution to your costs, if you could please let me know how much that is.

Kind regards,

That way, you give your apologies and assurance that it won't happen again: then you make it clear what you have done to make sure it won't happen again: then you ask politely if you can agree things out of court.

And you might want to think about saying something like 'Dear Sir or Madam' at the beginning of the letter instead of 'Hello'. It probably won't make any difference (I deal with letters rather like this for a non-railway organisation, and as long as the salutation is something fairly polite I probably won't take any notice of it) but something a bit more formal is more usual for letters like this: it helps to show that you know that you are dealing with someone you should be polite to, and not just dropping a note to a friend.

 

[schick04]

I'd swap paragraphs 2 and 3 over so that it says something like



That way, you give your apologies and assurance that it won't happen again: then you make it clear what you have done to make sure it won't happen again: then you ask politely if you can agree things out of court.

And you might want to think about saying something like 'Dear Sir or Madam' at the beginning of the letter instead of 'Hello'. It probably won't make any difference (I deal with letters rather like this for a non-railway organisation, and as long as the salutation is something fairly polite I probably won't take any notice of it) but something a bit more formal is more usual for letters like this: it helps to show that you know that you are dealing with someone you should be polite to, and not just dropping a note to a friend.

Great, i'll do that. Thank you!

 

[Snow1964]

Need to tweak it to be more formal with Dear Sir instead of Hello.

Also add a line above with Your Reference : xxxxx

Try and remember the person reading it may see dozens of similar letters per day, maybe hundred per week, so try and make it easy for them to process what you are after (which is why keeping it short, apologetic, and straight to the point is important).

 

[schick04]

Need to tweak it to be more formal with Dear Sir instead of Hello.

Also add a line above with Your Reference : xxxxx

Try and remember the person reading it may see dozens of similar letters per day, maybe hundred per week, so try and make it easy for them to process what you are after (which is why keeping it short, apologetic, and straight to the point is important).

Thank you!

 

[user9999999999]

This thread may be helpful to read before responding - it shows the importance that Northern hold the response to the initial letter.

Summoned to court

So I didn’t buy a full ticket and just paid for the last station to get out the train station but it didn’t scan. The ticket officer took my details and said I do not have to go to court or receive a criminal conviction nor pay a fine. I then received a letter months later explaining I need to...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[schick04]

I’ve had a response!

 

[WesternLancer]

I’ve had a response!

So of course pay that and keep proof of payment.

Note they may yet raise other instances with you. If they do head here for advice before replying.

 

[schick04]

So of course pay that and keep proof of payment.

Note they may yet raise other instances with you. If they do head here for advice before replying.

Thanks. I will do. Hopefully they don’t!