Northern Rail short fare

[Paige2141]

Hi,

Basically, last summer I was travelling with my boyfriend on a train into Liverpool, we got on at a station and he paid for our tickets on arrival to Lime street and said we got on at a later station than we did, thus saving himself £1.90 per ticket! I should have challenged him at the time but due to fear of getting him into trouble chose to keep my mouth shut, very foolish of me! As we got through the gates we were asked where we boarded the train we said the station that the tickets were from, the RPI explained that there was a block on and we would have needed an extra ticket to get through the barrier that day. We were stopped separately and questioned and our names were taken, I fully co-operated with the man that took my details, he took my ticket, and rang through to check my personal details were correct! I was terrified as this is the first time I have ever been put into a situation such as this one. He said that I would receive a letter in the future off Northern Rail and was unsure as to what the process was thereafter!

Fast forward 9 months, needless to say me and my boyfriend split soon after as I didn't want to be put into a situation such as that one in the future, I quickly met someone else and by shock fell pregnant, a lot to deal with and all this time, no letter from Northern.

So now I find myself here, 6 months pregnant and wondering what my future holds, I gave Northern a call on Friday gone and the chap on the phone advised me to 'let sleeping dogs lie' not to contact Northerns prosecutions unit for fear of incriminating myself, especially as they had my right contact details and I'm still at this address, I can't move on I find myself regularly having panic attacks for fear of losing my job if I have been prosecuted in my absence and received a criminal record, which I fear is unlikely as I would have needed some notification and I received nothing at all, not even the initial letter!

I'm not looking for sympathy, I was just hoping someone with a bit of knowledge could either put my mind at ease that I should treat this as a lesson learned and move on or whether the possibility that I have been prosecuted in my absence is real and I need to look into it, file a statutory declaration that I was unaware etc.

FYI- My ex-boyfriend received no correspondence from Northern either, he changed address in November, the alleged offence was in June. This is also first time offence for us both.

Thanks in advance

 

[bb21]

If you gave your correct address and have heard nothing for nine months, then I think you can in all probability relax as the case must be laid in front of a court within six months should there be a case for prosecution. The court might take some time to set a date for a hearing but I think after nine months it is unlikely that you will hear further from them.

I reckon the worries have been enough of a sanction for you so make sure that you stay on the right side of the law in the future.

 

[Paige2141]

Hi thanks for your reply. I have Northern a call this morning, there is no record of me on their system, the girl on the phone was very reassuring and told me that Northern would not be pursuing anything with me, I feel relieved and definitely will be making sure that there is no repeat of the offence in the future, I agree, I think the worries have been enough of a sanction, but thank you again for your reply

 

[Stigy]

If you gave your correct address and have heard nothing for nine months, then I think you can in all probability relax as the case must be laid in front of a court within six months should there be a case for prosecution. The court might take some time to set a date for a hearing but I think after nine months it is unlikely that you will hear further from them.

I reckon the worries have been enough of a sanction for you so make sure that you stay on the right side of the law in the future.

All depends on the TOC's workload and that of the the court. Courts are much busier these days as they are closing quite a few. It's not unheard of for a case not to be heard up to a year after an incident occurred, especially if the TOC don't lay it before the court until the last minute!

 

[Paige2141]

I rang northern rails prosecutions dept this morning, and was assured that they had no record of me, it was definately them that stopped is on the day as one person that was with us received a letter from them 6 weeks later, I am going to treat this as a huge learning curve, and move on from this unfortunate incident, thanks to all replies

 

[Paige2141]

If you were stopped at Liverpool line street would it be northern rail who dealt with your case or another TOC? If you were travelling on the Wigan to Liverpool line, Prescot, Huyton, Edgehill etc! People stopped at the same time received correspondence from Northern Rail but I've spoken with them and they have no record of me, am I worrying about nothing or could it be another rail company? This all happened 10 & half months ago btw, so I think by now I'd have heard but I still can't help thinking about it! Never received anything and RPI rang deed poll to check my details were correct, still at same address etc! HELP! Xx

 

[PermitToTravel]

You could be dealt with by any TOC, but at this stage I wouldn't worry. You appear to have slipped through the net.

I would urge you to ensure that all of your ticketing is regular and boring in the future, as they do still have a record of your details, and would know that any offences you are caught for in the future are not your first offence.

 

[island]

There's basically a 6-month limit for prosecutions, so if nothing's happened by now then it means you're probably off the hook.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

There's basically a 6-month limit for prosecutions, so if nothing's happened by now then it means you're probably off the hook.

I do wish you'd stop offering this opinionated 'advice'. Stigy is quite correct in stating that heavy demand on court service can delay matters for many months. It is conceivable that Paige2141 will still receive a Summons - 'probably'? No. Possibly? Yes.
And not because of your 6-month 'rule'.

However, for the reasons stated in this matter, particularly the person from Northern Rail who found no record of the incident, I will think it unlikely that Paige2141 will ever have anything else to worry about in relation to that incident.

 

[Paige2141]

Thanks for all your advice, it's reassuring to know! I'm a hormonal woman at the moment who thinks the worlds against me! You have my word that nothing of this nature will ever happen again, it's ruined my life for long enough! I'm a usually respectable person and I'm in a completely different place now than I was a year ago! If I do ever hear anything I'll be sure to let you know! Thanks again xx

 

[island]

I do wish you'd stop offering this opinionated 'advice'. Stigy is quite correct in stating that heavy demand on court service can delay matters for many months. It is conceivable that Paige2141 will still receive a Summons - 'probably'? No. Possibly? Yes.
And not because of your 6-month 'rule'.

However, for the reasons stated in this matter, particularly the person from Northern Rail who found no record of the incident, I will think it unlikely that Paige2141 will ever have anything else to worry about in relation to that incident.

I'm quite happy with what I've written, thank you. I said Paige2141 is "probably off the hook" as there is "basically" a 6-month time limit, which as you well know is the limit from the date of an alleged offence by which information must be laid before the Magistrates Court, one of the steps leading to the issue of a summons. The qualifiers "basically" and "probably" make it clear that this is a broad-brush answer. Not every poster cares about every last intricacy of the system, and "if nothing has happened in 10 and a half months you're probably off the hook" is both correct and not unduly prolix.

 

[redbutton]

As an American expat, I'm curious about this- In the US, a party can still file a charge after the statute of limitations has expired, and it's up to the accused to invoke the time limit as a defense. Is that not the case in England? Will the magistrate's court just reject the prosecution at the start?

 

[Deerfold]

As an American expat, I'm curious about this- In the US, a party can still file a charge after the statute of limitations has expired, and it's up to the accused to invoke the time limit as a defense. Is that not the case in England? Will the magistrate's court just reject the prosecution at the start?

I believe this limit is particular to the offences in the Byelaws and rail-specific legislation, not applicable to all laws (like a statute of limitations would be).

 

[jkdd77]

I believe that, under s. 127 Magistrates Court Act 1980, information for a summons relating to a 'summary-only' offence must be laid before a court within a six-month period, unless any other statute provides otherwise.

As I understand, it, fare evasion under the RRA and byelaw offences are both summary-only offences (that is to say, they may generally only be heard before a magistrates court), whereas fraud and theft are not (the defendant may opt for trial by jury in the Crown Court).

If a defendant is charged with 'summary-only' offences in addition to indictable or 'either way' offences, then they may be heard together in the Crown Court.

 

[Paige2141]

Should I be worried that this is going to rear it's ugly head sometime in the future?

 

[PermitToTravel]

No. It's not impossible, but we are all in agreement that it is unlikely enough that you needn't worry.

 

[island]

Should I be worried that this is going to rear it's ugly head sometime in the future?

Unless you've done some other silly thing such as giving a false address, it is very likely (albeit not completely certain) that nothing further will come of this matter.

 

[Paige2141]

Oh god no! I realise I'm stupid, but I'm not that stupid! I gave all my correct details, the RPI even rang deed poll to check, and nothing's changed from then to now, so hopefully that will be all! Thanks again!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What about if I've been convicted in my absence but surely I would have known, and wouldn't it have been northern rail anyway? Surely if it was northern rail that dealt with my friend they would have dealt with me also? We were stopped at exactly the same time and took apart to be questioned? Don't you have to get some sort of notice in the post, and if they've taken me to court surely they have my right address and everything so I would have had some correspondence! Oh I hate this whole thing!

 

[PermitToTravel]

If you have been convicted in your absence then you can make a statutory declaration to that effect in court. You will always get a chance at a fair trial.

 

[Paige2141]

It would be the same rail company though wouldn't it, if we were stopped at the same time on the same day as we went through together, they got a letter 4 weeks later from northern rail and I rang northern rail and they had no knowledge of any of my details, even my postcode! Wouldn't that mean that I wouldn't hear anything now? As surely if I was going to be contacted it would be from them xxx

 

[PermitToTravel]

Assuming that you were both questioned by staff of the same company, yes. Joint exercises are sometimes conducted but I can't speak as to the frequency of this in Liverpool.

It might well be that, having compared notes, they decided that only your friend had done any wrong. Alternatively, your details might have been lost, or recorded incorrectly.

You'll probably never find out what happened, unless they have decided to prosecute you without first writing to you (they usually do write to you, to give you a chance to explain yourself or incriminate yourself further, as appropriate).

All you can do is stop worrying, and ensure that you're not placed in this same situation again.

 

[Paige2141]

It's awful not knowing! I think the most likely thing is that northern rail have no knowledge of the incident and as you say have lost my details or such! I think otherwise I would have heard by now definately! As surely they would have contacted me if they were going to prosecute me, because as you say surely they'd have requested a statement xx

 

[bb21]

You cannot dwell on this forever, or you will never move on.