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Northern Rail passenger tries using Electron (resolved)

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sarahj

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Blue Natwest debit cards the the card of choice for being declined on the train. Of around say out of 5, you get one that will work. I've been told, but do not know for sure, that even sticking the thing in a cashpoint and checking your balance once a day might reset the card and make it work.

As for cards that never work. Cards without raised numbers never work. Santander is one bank that issues these.
 
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ANorthernGuard

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Light Blue Natwest
Any "Basic" Debit Card
White HSBC
any card with "Electronic Use only"
Purple RBS

They are the main culprits
 

island

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Blue Natwest debit cards the the card of choice for being declined on the train. Of around say out of 5, you get one that will work. I've been told, but do not know for sure, that even sticking the thing in a cashpoint and checking your balance once a day might reset the card and make it work.

This is correct for some cards especially if the cardholder is in the habit of making small transactions. The reason why is a bit too convoluted for this forum though.
 

Muzer

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This is correct for some cards especially if the cardholder is in the habit of making small transactions. The reason why is a bit too convoluted for this forum though.
I'd quite like to know why.
 

island

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Right then, apologies for anyone who gets bored.

A card transaction can be processed offline, without contacting the issuing bank or its agent, or online by contacting them to obtain authorisation. Transactions can be done online if the merchant has a phone/data link to their acquiring bank (the bank that processes card transactions for that merchant), and many merchants must make all their transactions online. Certain trusted merchants, such as airlines, supermarkets and TOCs, have authority to perform offline transactions up to a certain amount, for various reasons. These might include speeding up processing or because the merchant cannot go online for technological reasons, such as because it uses rubbishy 11-year old overweight machines with tiny screens ;)

When a bank issues a chip card, it programs several things onto the chip. This includes the number, individual value, and cumulative value of offline transactions that can be performed before the card must go online. (For contactless cards it also includes the number, individual value, and cumulative value of contactless transactions that can be performed before the card must make a chip & PIN transaction.) For some cards, such as the online-only cards mentioned above, these amounts are all set to 0, and if this is the case, a flag is also set on the magnetic stripe of the card which is supposed to prevent the card being used offline in swipe and sign mode. This latter feature does not always work.

All ATM transactions must be performed online, including balance enquiries, so doing a valid ATM transaction will result in the offline limit being reset. Using a card in a normal store won't always do this as the transaction might have been processed offline.
 

Muzer

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Oh, I see. So this is more for people who have cards with quite a low offline transaction limit than those who have it completely disabled (as I believe I do)?
 

island

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Right. Some cards will not work at all offline; others will work sometimes and not others.
 

Captain Chaos

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I have only ever had a card come up with Retain card once and once only on the Avantix. A few years ago it was. A bloke boarded at Ash and attempted to buy a 1st Open Return to Manchester for the next day despite the ticket office being open. We were having problems at the time with a person using dodgy cards on train for just this type of transaction and this guy fitted the bill. So asked for PIN and it said retain card. I requested the BTP to have a chat with him and they were waiting at Guildford for him. He told them that he reported his card as lost the day before but found it again and "forgot" that he had blocked it. They then went and gave him back his card and said there was nothing they could do! Incredible! The revenue manager was fuming when I told him...
 

Flamingo

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Before now I have had a suspect card for two days in a row, (Ticket office at station, Guy had bought loads from buffet on it both days, but it came up declined, no signal to ring & only going one stop, pin reader would not read chip), the second day I pushed it into the chip&pin so hard it accidentally snapped. Oh dear, silly me, how clumsy.
 
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Flamingo

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Next time I saw him, he said he had to get home as he'd just had word his aunt "had been killed in the tsunami in Japan".

I left him with some unsympathetic barrier staff.
 

CyrusWuff

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Having just checked the relevant merchant procedures, the basic line is that you should make a "Code 10" call to the authorisation centre if you're at all suspicious about the card or holder. This includes cards that haven't been signed.

My understanding is that if an unsigned card is tendered, the merchant should ask for ID with a photo and signature, and require the cardholder to sign the card there and then, comparing the signatures. The transaction must also be authorised online, but not necessarily by telephone.

It depends on the Merchant Services Provider. The instructions I was referring to were those belonging to Global Payments UK (formerly HSBC Merchant Services).

Of course, if that was followed to the letter, you'd be on the phone 95% of the time you got an American customer paying by card...
Why's that then?

Because American customers are notorious for failing to sign their credit and debit cards, or writing "SEE ID" (or similar) on the signature strip. Having said that, I've also noticed an increasing number of unsigned UK-issued cards because people seem to think that Chip and PIN means they'll never need to sign for a purchase.
 
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I once had an argument and a very patronising conductor lecture me about train fares and other such crap when my visa debit didn't work. I wanted a single ticket from Shipley to Sandal & Agbrigg. He marched me through the station while continuing to not listen to my reason for not having a ticket. Shipley's a big place, and i normally have a metrocard (day after it expired, hadn't been into leeds to get it renewed).
 
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island

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I once had an argument and a very patronising conductor lecture me about train fares and other such crap when my visa debit didn't work. I wanted a single ticket from Shipley to Sandal & Agbrigg. He marched me through the station while continuing to not listen to my reason for not having a ticket. Shipley's a big place, and i normally have a metrocard (day after it expired, hadn't been into leeds to get it renewed)..

Shipley is a staffed station, why didn't you buy before boarding?
 

yorkie

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I think this has run its course now.

Can I also remind people of the report button (
report.gif
) and to please not re-publish inappropriate content by quoting it. The earlier it is reported, the easier it is for us to deal with it.
 
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