Northern Rail - Letting the North-East down

[Scott M]

alternatively, the last bus to Durham from Newcastle is 23.12 (aside Friday - Sunday where a 24 hour service operates)

Alternatively for Hexham and the Tyne Valley there's a departure at 23.00 on the bus

For Sunderland Stadium gigs etc, the Go North East run a myriad of extra services.

Maybe the train companies don't want to compete or can't see the sense in doing it?

This is a good point. It is easy to fall into the trap of thinking the railway is the only form of public transport when on a railway forum, but alas it is not.

 

[DarloRich]

Was the Metro not running? Are there not decent late buses out of Newcastle? There was in the past.

Sadly, I can well imagine that Northern would be quite worried about running footie extras in the NE. didn't a Middlesbrough-Sunderland train get trashed a couple of years back? FA Cup replay?
Apart from the staffing problems of trying to run extra services, losing units due to vandalism would be another disincentive to try to bother.

It was an England game.

Poor show in my opinion but par for the course. Usual reasons are peddled out even though the game was announced months in advance. If there were pre planned engineering works, I can accept that but if they could not be bothered, then the railway needs to change.

you know that for a fact do you? Have you any proof you could share? Could it be that no staff were willing to work extra or that trains were being maintained, fueled etc or there was an engineering possession or signal box closure? Nah, i bet they sat in the office at Northern HQ laughing whilst they worked out how to screw people over :roll:

It really doesn't help that Heaton depot is in the "wrong" place. ie: All the late evening trains want to go back to Heaton depot, which is just North of Newcastle on the ECML. The last train from Durham to Newcastle is really quite late (around 01:30 - yes, I know it's set down only), but going southbound the next depot is in York, over an hour away. It would be nice if TPE ran a few Newcastle - York trains around 2300 and 00:00, but the incentive really isn't there. My understanding as well, was that there used to be a few late night Newcastle - Middlesbrough via Darlington trains, but that some people died largely due to being very drunk and the added police presence required to stop it happening was no longer worth the cost.

TPE don't use Heaton which means they want to get their units back south

I haven't heard of people dying on late night trains but have used them before and they were colourful to say the least!

For poor try the Bishop Auckland branch, last train off Darlington 2032 m-Sat, 1834 sun. returning from Bishop about 40 mins later.

Yes - you cant get from Darlo to a Darlo midweek home game at Bishop Auckland and back by train! The last train leaves before full time. Our supporters coach does a good trade midweek.

Even a Saturday game is hard. Either arrive at 11:25 or 13:25 and leave at 18:05 which makes connections south from Darlo difficult. I get the supporters coach when i go to a home game now.

 

[cuccir]

alternatively, the last bus to Durham from Newcastle is 23.12 (aside Friday - Sunday where a 24 hour service operates)
Alternatively for Hexham and the Tyne Valley there's a departure at 23.00 on the bus
For Sunderland Stadium gigs etc, the Go North East run a myriad of extra services.
Maybe the train companies don't want to compete or can't see the sense in doing it?

This is a good point. It is easy to fall into the trap of thinking the railway is the only form of public transport when on a railway forum, but alas it is not.

Well the existence of late night buses was already noted previously. In response to the original post, there also aren't any late night buses Sunderland - Middlesbrough/Stockton. If there were rail services, people would use those over the bus: the buses on these routes are slower, and require an extra ticket unless you're prepared to travel in on the slower bus service - they're not really competing with the rail companies and aren't why the trains don't run at that time.

Either way and fundamentally, the discussion was was about train services.

I can completely see why services out of Newcastle and Sunderland end when they do: a mixture of local geography, service patterns, depot locations and drunken behaviour. We can agree that there are strong reasons for it, but also bemoan it a little!

 

[glbotu]

TPE don't use Heaton which means they want to get their units back south

I haven't heard of people dying on late night trains but have used them before and they were colourful to say the least!

In terms of TPE, that's why I suggested a late night Southbound Newcastle - York, allowing their trains to run back to their York depot.

In terms of people dying, my understanding was that this was following a drunken altercation at Durham railway station, someone fell out of the train and hit their head on the platform.

 

[cuccir]

In terms of TPE, that's why I suggested a late night Southbound Newcastle - York, allowing their trains to run back to their York depot.

In terms of people dying, my understanding was that this was following a drunken altercation at Durham railway station, someone fell out of the train and hit their head on the platform.

That's sad

In relation to this service - they did used to run a ~02:00 service from Newcastle to York until the mid-2000s: I remember using it as a student so it was still running in 2005, but stopped soon after. I think that this was the service that they felt was too burdened by drunken behaviour.

Of course, there's still an issue that a gap between a 22:41 and a 02:00 service doesn't really serve a lot of city center night time users - the 2am service clearly targets people who've been out all night, but isn't much use if your film ends at 22:40. It would be nice if the Durham Coast/Tyne Valley/ECML to Darlo or York had services leaving Newcastle between about 23:00-23:30, but as noted there are several barriers preventing this

 

[Tetchytyke]

TPE used to run later trains from Newcastle, there used to be a 0215 from Newcastle to Manchester Airport. It did have a tendency to be a bit colourful until Darlington, but that isn't why it got binned: it got binned because Network Rail wanted to do engineering works. The 2200 Kings Cross-Newcastle was almost binned north of York for the same reason (and for a while was split at York into a separate service at 0055, frequently bustituted).

The big issue I've found is that the 2220 Northern service now terminates at Darlington, just in time to watch the last Middlesbrough train leave the station, whereas it used to go through to Teesside (I definitely remember it going through to Redcar when I first moved to the north east).

Beyond that, a big issue is geography. Durham and Darlington only really see long-distance trains these days, meaning the last train is when the last long-distance train is; 2250 isn't so bad in that context. As for the Tyne Valley and the Durham Coast, the simple fact of the matter is that later trains will mostly be carting fresh air around.

 

[DarloRich]

there was one ran through to Manchester Airport from Newcastle at stupid o clock. It was interesting seeing people off on their holidays and drunk students mixing together!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I haven't heard of people dying on late night trains but have used them before and they were colourful to say the least!

The only death I can remember is when someone stole a bloke's shoes and threw them on top of a Voyager at Durham. He climbed up to get them and, well, you can guess the rest.

That was a teatime train though.

 

[Deerfold]

It was interesting to read of the extra services put on in the Leicester area the other week when Leicester City were having their Victory parade, and the local TOC's rightly being applauded for their efforts.

Forward a few weeks, and here in the North-east England are playing Australia at the Stadium of Light, Sunderland. It's a 7.45 KO, so the match should finish around 9.40pm. Tyne & Wear Metro are providing extra services to Newcastle to cater for the extra demand.

Is this something the Metro has started doing recently?

A few years ago I went to a large pop concert at the same stadium.

I was in the first 10% out of the stadium and just in time to see the last Metro leave (though it was full with a long queue so even if I'd been a few minutes earlier I'd have probably still missed it).

We had a long walk back to where we were staying in Newcastle centre.

 

[causton]

there was one ran through to Manchester Airport from Newcastle at stupid o clock. It was interesting seeing people off on their holidays and drunk students mixing together!

You can still see that - I took the 0100ish Leeds to York and return on TPE to get the diversionary routes in and there was a mix of the same!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Is this something the Metro has started doing recently?

They've got better at it, especially on the metals that they own, they run extras on Newcastle United matchdays too. They're a bit more restricted out at Sunderland because they're reliant on Network Rail playing ball, which doesn't always happen.

 

[DarloRich]

The only death I can remember is when someone stole a bloke's shoes and threw them on top of a Voyager at Durham. He climbed up to get them and, well, you can guess the rest.

That was a teatime train though.

that was recently and he lasted a surprising time in hospital before succumbing. So terribly sad and terribly stupid.

TPE used to run later trains from Newcastle, there used to be a 0215 from Newcastle to Manchester Airport. It did have a tendency to be a bit colourful until Darlington,

Sorry about that - i tried my best to behave but it was such a good environment for fun

but that isn't why it got binned: it got binned because Network Rail wanted to do engineering works. The 2200 Kings Cross-Newcastle was almost binned north of York for the same reason (and for a while was split at York into a separate service at 0055, frequently bustituted).

Phew - thought i was to blame

The big issue I've found is that the 2220 Northern service now terminates at Darlington, just in time to watch the last Middlesbrough train leave the station, whereas it used to go through to Teesside (I definitely remember it going through to Redcar when I first moved to the north east).

VERY frustrating - and at that time no bus link either (to Teesside or NW Durham)

Beyond that, a big issue is geography. Durham and Darlington only really see long-distance trains these days, meaning the last train is when the last long-distance train is; 2250 isn't so bad in that context. As for the Tyne Valley and the Durham Coast, the simple fact of the matter is that later trains will mostly be carting fresh air around.

INTO Newcastle certainly. Later trains the other way would generate custom, especially after the last Metro. Although for Sunderland that must be the answer to delivering later trains.
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Is this something the Metro has started doing recently?

A few years ago I went to a large pop concert at the same stadium.

I was in the first 10% out of the stadium and just in time to see the last Metro leave (though it was full with a long queue so even if I'd been a few minutes earlier I'd have probably still missed it).

We had a long walk back to where we were staying in Newcastle centre.

you had a VERY long walk from the Stadium of Light to Newcastle!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry:

 

[Clip]

you had a VERY long walk from the Stadium of Light to Newcastle!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry:

Was just thinking that - it would be about 2 hours or so

 

[Deerfold]

you had a VERY long walk from the Stadium of Light to Newcastle!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry:

Oops - faulty memory - it was Gateshead Stadium - the walk was about an hour to Byker.

 

[FQTV]

In the interests only of information provision:

Patrick Brown - Died following a scuffle on board a late night service which continued after disembarkation at Durham. Funeral reported here:

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/sad-farewell-to-murdered-student-1679731

The attacker was subsequently convicted of manslaughter.

Andrew Minto - Died having come into contact with over head line equipment at Durham. Inquest reported here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2027298/Football-fan-Andrew-Minto-died-electric-shock-climbing-train.html

 

[DarloRich]

Oops - faulty memory - it was Gateshead Stadium - the walk was about an hour to Byker.

that sounds about right - a cab wouldn't have cost that much mind

 

[Deerfold]

that sounds about right - a cab wouldn't have cost that much mind

No, but there were 10s of thousands of people also leaving at the same time.