Northern Rail FPN HELP!!

[Blytrain]

hi all

I received one of these astonishingly nasty FPN letters after I replied to the original letter I received after this happened:

Bought a single from Manchester Oxford Rd to Didsbury East. It was not my usual route and I forgot to change at Picadilly instead got off at my usual stop Heaton Chapel. They were checking tickets so i went straight over and explained. Filled out the form. They took my ticket 'as evidence ' and I signed the back of it. They said it should be OK as I paid more than the ticket I should have had.
Now I'm threatened with court and a criminal record. A fine of 80 quid or court and worse!!

The letter states I was clearly avoiding paying a fare which is blatantly not true. Now they have my only evidence to attest to my story. Help?

 

[najaB]

Now I'm threatened with court and a criminal record. A fine of 80 quid or court and worse!!

This is a bit pedantic, but it is an important point - the £80 fixed charge is *NOT* a fine. I know it feels like one, but only the court can fine someone, after they are found guilty of breaking a law. The reason I want you to be clear about this is because paying the £80 makes the whole issue go away, and leaves no mark on your record.

The letter states I was clearly avoiding paying a fare which is blatantly not true. Now they have my only evidence to attest to my story. Help?

Unfortunately, according to the letter of the law they are correct. You paid 'a' fare, but not 'the' fare for the journey you made. While I would be surprised if they attempted a prosecution, weirder things have happened.

If I were in your situation, and assuming that you have £80 available, I would pay it to make the case go away and then complain to customer service about the whole matter. If you are very clear about what happened and how you came to not have the correct ticket there is a very good chance they may refund the FPN as a goodwill gesture.

If you have a chequebook, you can combine the two by sending the letter along with the cheque - it's not unknown for TOCs to decline cashing the cheque once the circumstances are fully explained.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I agree with najaB.

The facts are that you travelled without a ticket which authorised your travel, and that (in the circumstances you describe) is evidence of an offence in law.

Unless we're missing something, you would have no evidence which could give me any confidence in suggesting that you would succeed in defending yourself against a prosecution for that offence. Perhaps a solicitor would find some small but vital detail which could tip the balance in the other direction, but that's not apparent to me right now.

You should look at the £80 as an alternative option to the risks, costs and benefits of accepting that the Company is likely to pursue that offence and bring a prosecution against you. You are under no obligation to accept that £80 fee, but as najaB rightly says, it WILL make the matter go away, if that is what you elect to do after assessing your options.

 

[bb21]

What did you actually say to them?

I am slightly confused as normally if you explained that you made a mistake, and wished to take the next service back straight away in order to be on your way to your correct destination, very rarely would you get any problems.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Rather than note that, for example, a ticket to Heaton Chapel is cheaper than one to Didsbury!

 

[Blytrain]

What did you actually say to them?

I am slightly confused as normally if you explained that you made a mistake, and wished to take the next service back straight away in order to be on your way to your correct destination, very rarely would you get any problems.

Told them what had happened. Ie I presented the ticket I'd bought, said I'd mistakenly not changed at Picadilly and only just realised. The guy took the ticket from me and asked me to sign the back of it then complete his form. He told me not to worry as I'd paid more than the journey should have been so they might even just refund the difference. He did not suggest I get the next train back and correct my journey.

 

[Starmill]

If getting the next train back and travelling to your correct destination was what you wanted to do, then it would have been a good idea to explain that. Could it be that they thought you wanted to go to Heaton Chapel and had purchased an incorrect ticket?

It's commonplace to send people back if they appear to have mistakenly boarded a train, and without charge in most cases where they already have some ticket.

Out of interest, how did you get to East Didsbury? It appears you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and nothing more. If so, this is a good example of how Northern abuse their legal position to generate revenue through the use of "failure to pay" notices.

 

[Blytrain]

If getting the next train back and travelling to your correct destination was what you wanted to do, then it would have been a good idea to explain that. Could it be that they thought you wanted to go to Heaton Chapel and had purchased an incorrect ticket?

It's commonplace to send people back if they appear to have mistakenly boarded a train, and without charge in most cases where they already have some ticket.

Out of interest, how did you get to East Didsbury? It appears you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and nothing more. If so, this is a good example of how Northern abuse their legal position to generate revenue through the use of "failure to pay" notices.

Yeh I intended to go to Didsbury. Was just being absent minded as I usually go to HC. I was on a bike so ride to ED. I didn't even think of suggesting I get back on and correct myself as I was so flustered by the strong arm treatment they were dishing out.

 

[Merseysider]

Have you been on Northern's radar before?

If not, then this is the type of incident which they said wouldn't be penalised in this manner, when Northern were presenting the framework for the scheme to TfGM etc. (quick read here). Your frustration is understandable.

However, that does not change the fact that you had no valid ticket between Manchester and Heaton Chapel. Pay the £80 they're requesting to settle the matter, then pursue it through the correct channels afterwards.

 

[Starmill]

I would argue that you have one of the better cases to pursue your money back after you've paid the £80 charge. If you are prepared to go to a bit of trouble writing letters I think you could gain some support for simply making the wrong journey by accident through force of habit. It's not reasonable in this case for you to be charged £80 as JakeF's link helps to point out. Of course, there can be no guarantees of success.

 

[bb21]

Have you mentioned any intention of going back to Piccadilly in order to be on your correct way to East Didsbury at all, either at the time or in your subsequent communication with Northern?