Northern Rail fare evasion

[louloud123]

Hi,
In August I spent a day hopping on and off Northern Rail trains for various reasons, I travelled Manchester-Lancaster, Lancaster-Arnside, Arnside - Barrow in Furness, Barrow in Furness - Lancaster, Lancaster - Manchester.
For some of the journey I used the 'return' part of a two part return ticket. Between Arnside and Barrow in Furness I travelled without a ticket (there's no ticket office and there was no conductor on the train) and between Lancaster - Manchester. When I got to Manchester I tried to lie and only buy a ticket from Oxford Road station.

I know that was incredibly stupid and I've lost lots more sleep than the £10 ticket was worth. I'm sorry for what I did and have never done anything like it before, I usually buy my tickets way in advance so it's cheaper. I've got what seems to be the standard letter asking me to fill in the details of the journey I carried out and whether I have any of my own comments to add.
I've written a letter but I'm not sure if it's too waffely/how much detail they want or if I should keep it very short and very apologetic. Would somebody be able to head me in the right direction? It would be very much appreciated.

 

[bb21]

I am confused by your claims. What ticket did you have?

 

[Harlesden]

Do you mean Trans Pennine Express? All the journeys you describe are on TPE's Manchester-Barrow-in-Furness route. I am not being pedantic. Each TOC has their own procedures for your situation and some TOC's are more lenient than others.

 

[island]

Additionally, Lancaster is fully staffed so it would be expected that you buy a ticket before joining a train there.

 

[185]

Child day return MAN-ARN is £9.90

 

[455driver]

So you basically bought a return ticket and used it like a rover ticket, is that right.

 

[snail]

Additionally, Lancaster is fully staffed so it would be expected that you buy a ticket before joining a train there.

But TPE conductors are always willing to sell tickets on board and come through the train after every station unless the train is packed. If the OP was challenged at Manchester Piccadilly it will be Northern/G4S. The TOCs he travelled on are not relevant.

 

[island]

I didn't say the TOCs used were relevant, and whether or not the FTPE guard comes through, it is still a legal obligation to buy before boarding when the facilities to do so are available.

 

[CC 72100]

So you basically bought a return ticket and used it like a rover ticket, is that right.

That's how I read it!

 

[louloud123]

Hi, thanks for all getting back to me and sorry for not making myself clear. Yes you're right I'm sorry, it's TransPennine.
I had some return parts of tickets left to use so it's quite confusing with the number of tickets I had.
On the day of travel I bought a single Manchester- Lancaster (this was the second part of an open return). I then bought a return ticket from Lancaster - Arnside. At the time I hadn't planned to go to Barrow, otherwise I would have got a ticket to Barrow instead. So I had an impromptu visit from Arnside to Barrow with nowhere/no one to buy a ticket from.
I had the second part of an open return from Barrow - Lancaster to use on the way back.
Lancaster - Manchester I traveled without a ticket and then lied to the manned desk and tried to buy a ticket only from Oxford Road.

So i traveled without a valid ticket Arnside - Barrow, Manchester - Lancaster. I'm willing to pay any fine, i've read a lot about the initial stages of people's fare evasion but I can't find any details on how frequently people are given a criminal record, does anybody have any stats?

 

[louloud123]

Also, nobody was on board the train to buy a ticket from for either journey I made without a ticket.

 

[Deerfold]

But on a ticket MAN-ARN, it would be quite valid to have all these breaks of journey (subject to the ticket restrictions), but not to Barrow-in-Furness and back - but the arrival into Manchester would not be not covered. I think we need to know the ticket that was being used.

 

[cuccir]

Do you mean Trans Pennine Express? All the journeys you describe are on TPE's Manchester-Barrow-in-Furness route. I am not being pedantic. Each TOC has their own procedures for your situation and some TOC's are more lenient than others.

Northern Rail trains also cover this route.

 

[snail]

I didn't say the TOCs used were relevant, and whether or not the FTPE guard comes through, it is still a legal obligation to buy before boarding when the facilities to do so are available.

Indeed it is, but TPE explicitly do not enforce it. There are posters on all TPE trains stating that tickets are available on board but without discounts.

If you do board one of our trains without a valid ticket, at a station where ticket buying facilities are available, then you will be charged the Anytime (full open single or return) fare for your journey. You will not be eligible to benefit from any discounted fares or Railcard discounts, with the exception of the Disabled Persons Railcard (people using this Railcard may also benefit from being sold a reduced price off-peak ticket, if applicable).

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Northern Rail trains also cover this route.

I know there are a couple of Preston to Carlisle services and a Buxton to Barrow service of an evening but are there any Northern trains between Lancaster and Preston during the day?

 

[Deerfold]

Indeed it is, but TPE explicitly do not enforce it. There are posters on all TPE trains stating that tickets are available on board but without discounts.

However before the part you quote it says:

First TransPennine Express operates in accordance with the National
Rail Conditions of Carriage, which state that you must have a valid ticket
for your journey prior to boarding where you have had the opportunity
to buy one. Copies of the Conditions of Carriage are available upon
request at ticket offices or from the National Rail website.

http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/media/95594/passcharter_march2012.pdf

 

[louloud123]

I know you're supposed to buy a ticket before you get on the train, and I understand that it's a legal obligation. Whenever I seem to buy a ticket on the train though the inspector is always more than happy to do it without any suggestion that it's law-breaking or anything. I guess I don't have a leg to stand on with that legally, it just seems a bit strange that they can inflict punishments a bit willy nilly.

My tickets were valid for all parts of the journey except Arnside - Barrow and Lancaster - Manchester. Then I lied at Manchester Pic and tried to only buy a ticket from Man Oxford Road.
This is the letter I have written...

To Whom It May Concern,
I am writing to give you my details of the events that occurred on the 7th August 2013. I’m aware my journey is more complex than most and hope I can make it clear.
In the morning I got the train from Manchester Piccadilly to Lancaster, travelling on my ‘return’ section of a ticket valid until 4th September. On this train I purchased my ticket from Lancaster to Arnside (only purchasing a single as I intended to use my valid ticket from Barrow-in-Furness to Lancaster for the return journey, though only intending to travel from Arnside to Lancaster with it at that moment). I then got on the train at Lancaster (I had to change trains as there was no direct train) and alighted at Arnside. After my meeting in Arnside I proceeded to Barrow-in-Furness. This was an impromptu journey (if I had known earlier that I would be making this journey I would have bought a ticket to Barrow-in-Furness instead of buying my ticket to Arnside). As there is no ticket office at Arnside station and no conductor was present on the train, I did not pay for my journey between Arnside and Barrow-in-Furness.
I returned to Lancaster from Barrow-in-Furness on a ticket, valid until 9th August. Here I changed trains and got on a train for Manchester. I have bought my tickets on the train many times without trouble or advice from the conductor that I should have bought my ticket at the train station, so I intended to do this like usual. No conductor approached me on this journey for me to buy a ticket from.
I alighted at Manchester Piccadilly and approached the ticket booth and lied to a member of your staff in an attempt to pay a cheaper fare. I am aware of the seriousness of my actions which I can only attribute to a blind moment of panic, foolishness and irrational behaviour. I offer my unreserved apologies and would like to assure you that I have never and will never be in a similar situation when using a any rail service. What I did was dishonest, shameful and uncharacteristic. I hope you accept my offer of an out of court settlement and my apologies once again.


Is it too waffly? Am I better just saying sorry or explaining the journey in full?
Thanks once again.

 

[bb21]

I think the question of not buying before boarding is the least of your worries at the moment.

You have a PM.