Northern rail driver course

[Tj33]

Hi all,

I'm awaiting a course start date for train driver in Leeds. Just wondered if anyone has started the course and can give some insight into what it's like? Obviously will be hard but I mean what the course timetable/ phases entail?

Also is uniform issued straight away or is it a case you get your uniform once you pass the initial phases

 

[Railweigh]

The course has recently changed, but I assume the hours remain the same. Mon-Fri 9-4. I think you do 10 weeks then have a week off, then go back for the remaining 5 weeks. When I did the course we had a depot experience week at our home depot near the beginning of the course, now I don’t think you even see your DTM’s until after week 10.

Uniform you’ll order pretty much straight away, and for the initial phases there is no pass or fail. The first pass or fail part comes at the end of the 16 weeks.

 

[Tj33]

Great stuff. Thanks for the insight. I take the first 16 weeks are all rules learning?
Do you then go straight in with a driver trainer at your depot to learn and get your hours in?

 

[Aivilo]

It's recently changed into an E Learning set up comprising of

1. RSSB has developed a generic part A training for the industry, with an investment of £2million which allows trainees to gain their formal certification. The package provides a complete set of training documentation, methods and media, manipulating some of the latest technology through PCs, tablets and smartphones. This provides a fully blended approach to training, building in a range of adult learning styles and embedding non-technical-skills.
2. Part B training
   The Part B training consists of driving hours, traction, route and company task specific training to achieve full driver competence. There is also a focus on improving route knowledge training which includes the outputs of RSSB research project T1108. It is intended to use the academy to bring the industry together to share best practice, identify efficiency gains and drive change in training.

I am not familiar with timings of the new set up but as always the course is not pass or fail other than PTS. You will receive further training on any aspects

 

[Tj33]

Brilliant thanks for that.

 

[Static65]

It's recently changed into an E Learning set up comprising of

1. RSSB has developed a generic part A training for the industry, with an investment of £2million which allows trainees to gain their formal certification. The package provides a complete set of training documentation, methods and media, manipulating some of the latest technology through PCs, tablets and smartphones. This provides a fully blended approach to training, building in a range of adult learning styles and embedding non-technical-skills.
2. Part B training
   The Part B training consists of driving hours, traction, route and company task specific training to achieve full driver competence. There is also a focus on improving route knowledge training which includes the outputs of RSSB research project T1108. It is intended to use the academy to bring the industry together to share best practice, identify efficiency gains and drive change in training.

I am not familiar with timings of the new set up but as always the course is not pass or fail other than PTS. You will receive further training on any aspects

From the outside that sounds fantastic. How is it going in a real world environment? Have many gone through the new training yet?

 

[Aivilo]

Only recently started on the east as a pilot so early days and could be a chance that the OP sits the old style because of this. Unsure if they're yet to pilot it on the West. A similar course was done some years back with Southern which was a failure. Northern however have worked closely with the rail delivery group so let's see how she goes.

 

[Tj33]

Can I ask what the biggest changes are. Thought all together you learn the rule book and how to deal with emergencies for a few months with exams and then learn to drive, and deal with situations on trains then get your hours in with an instructor.

 

[Aivilo]

Nothing has changed in the sense of what you learn it's simply the format you learn it. The old course format differs from TOC to TOC, Where as the new course (part a) is meant to be industry standard as such you could have multiple trainees from.different TOCs doing part a together

 

[Tj33]

No worries. Thanks for the insight

 

[Llama]

It's recently changed into an E Learning set up comprising of

1. RSSB has developed a generic part A training for the industry, with an investment of £2million which allows trainees to gain their formal certification. The package provides a complete set of training documentation, methods and media, manipulating some of the latest technology through PCs, tablets and smartphones. This provides a fully blended approach to training, building in a range of adult learning styles and embedding non-technical-skills.
2. Part B training
   The Part B training consists of driving hours, traction, route and company task specific training to achieve full driver competence. There is also a focus on improving route knowledge training which includes the outputs of RSSB research project T1108. It is intended to use the academy to bring the industry together to share best practice, identify efficiency gains and drive change in training.

I am not familiar with timings of the new set up but as always the course is not pass or fail other than PTS. You will receive further training on any aspects

I have an issue with the phrase "can't pass or fail other than PTS". There are more and more trainee drivers coming through who can't hack it. Some of them get failed on FCA, some of them pass out. But we are going backwards, there are far more new drivers who, compared to the norm ten-fifteen years ago, are poor in ability and attitude. Of those who pass out, maybe 20% are clearly dodgy for want of a better word. At our depot there are several of these new drivers who have been driving a matter of months but are clearly out of their depth and have had incidents where they have been brought off trains.

There has to be the scope in the course to fail candidates. Remember that every driver has a driver manager put their name against them as safe driving around the network. It is the driver manager's decision whether to find a candidate competent or not based on the evidence under assessment that is the final piece of the whole jigsaw.

Too many (prospective) trainee drivers think they have made it once they have passed the psychometrics. The salary is attracting the wrong type of person and HR seem to think that ex-emergency services workers are the best thing since sliced bread. Instructors at depots are tearing their hair out at the gaps in the knowledge of trainees coming from the school and their poor work ethic because the trainee driver course isn't fit for purpose and in no way prepares trainees for being out in their own without significant extra tuition from their DIs at depots. It comes as a surprise to the majority of trainees nowadays just how much work is required of them during module six - despite the fact that they usually end up taking twice or three times the amount of time to get through module six than they should.

 

[Aivilo]

On paper that is how it is though. I'm not saying it to promote false hope or mislead prospective trainees. Any driver, myself included would be stupid to think they know it all.

I completely agree with what your saying regarding trainees and I'm very selective on who I assist. This forum although a great source of information is a problem as people share to much.

 

[Llama]

Exactly, you only have to look at the people on here begging for answers when the info they want is already posted, just takes a bit of initiative to find!

It is a fact that not every trainee will make it to driver. That has to remain the case because it takes a certain skill set that has to be identified and understood to be able to do this job to a half decent standard, as well as self motivation and an eye for detail. Some people just haven't got it, even though they are able to pass the current psychometric testing.

 

[Aivilo]

I was told 20 years ago that anyone can drive a train not everyone can be a train driver and those words are never truer.

I "helped" numerous people over the years and only those that have applied themselves have got on and as I pointed out I won't help if I don't think you can cut it.

 

[Llama]

Likewise, and yes there are some who will never be a driver. I will help trainees as much as I can, but if I find I am putting more effort into their training than they are, I will then step back and let nature take its course.

The state of driver training these days makes me think that the Cullen report has been entirely forgotten.

 

[Aivilo]

Couldn't comment on a public forum.

 

[Dieseldriver]

Those last few comments. I agree 110%.

 

[Railweigh]

Instructors at depots are tearing their hair out at the gaps in the knowledge of trainees coming from the school and their poor work ethic because the trainee driver course isn't fit for purpose and in no way prepares trainees for being out in their own without significant extra tuition from their DIs at depots. It comes as a surprise to the majority of trainees nowadays just how much work is required of them during module six - despite the fact that they usually end up taking twice or three times the amount of time to get through module six than they should.

Surely the course is rules and theory based (apart from a couple of weeks core traction), and it’s not meant to prepare you on the practicalities of being out on your own other than the rules and theory - that comes in module 6 when you’re actually out driving with a minder. If trainees aren’t good enough on rules and traction then they shouldn’t pass A&V’s.

You’re right in saying about the attitude of some trainees, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the training course. It does what’s it’s supposed to, but only if trainees put in the work and that’s no fault of the training school.

IMO the assessments during the selection process are too easy, that’s the process that is supposed to ensure the correct candidates are chosen but maybe enhanced passes and extra assessments as per some TOC’s wouldn’t go amiss.

 

[Llama]

There's too much been stripped out of the course in my opinion. No signalbox visits, no visit to see working of a single line, no fire awareness, no first aid, no customer service course, no skid-pan, very little time on depots. It's been stripped back to bare minimum as it is, and don't forget that the new franchise wanted to strip weeks further out of the training course. There is too much of "your instructor will go through that with you at your depot" and also more recently a culture of the answers to exam papers being widely available and passed round amongst trainees, especially at latter stages. There are some trainees who should never make it out of the school whether because of their attitude or their ability, and whether that's the fault of the DTMs or the trainers that those trainees do get put through is open to debate.

The training course itself was far better when it first came in-house from CCL under FNW when trainees' practical handling wasn't all done in one block. Trainees then had more exposure to different trainers and instructors over a longer period of time, and they could put the rules and regs into practice as they learnt them and not months afterwards.

 

[ComUtoR]

It't not unique to Northern. We have the same issues.

My words to describe the e-learning course would be unpublishable.