Northern Rail DMU shortage

[bangor-toad]

Hi there,
It's probably *way* to far to go for spot hire, but I've always thought that the Hastings Diesel set (201 001) could be used to relieve short term lack of stock.

It performed well doing just this in the SE during the introduction of Turbostars and it's currently rated for mainline use...

Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[yorksrob]

Hi there,
It's probably *way* to far to go for spot hire, but I've always thought that the Hastings Diesel set (201 001) could be used to relieve short term lack of stock.

It performed well doing just this in the SE during the introduction of Turbostars and it's currently rated for mainline use...

Cheers,
Mr Toad

It happenned at Whitby, once upon a time !

Would be a good one for the Settle Carlisle perhaps

 

[IanXC]

Hi there,
It's probably *way* to far to go for spot hire, but I've always thought that the Hastings Diesel set (201 001) could be used to relieve short term lack of stock.

It performed well doing just this in the SE during the introduction of Turbostars and it's currently rated for mainline use...

Cheers,
Mr Toad

For use on National Rail services it would have to be "locked into" a line with no possibility of coming into contact with modern stock wouldn't it?

 

[edwin_m]

For use on National Rail services it would have to be "locked into" a line with no possibility of coming into contact with modern stock wouldn't it?

The Hastings unit has operated railtours so must be allowed on the main line in certain circumstances. Typically railtour stock has to have stewards on each door in the absence of secondary locking, access by seat reservation so no standing, and no passengers in end coaches. I don't know what applies to the Hastings unit but potentially some of these might.

 

[northwichcat]

43 (!) train formations updates currently reported: http://www.journeycheck.com/northernrail

Some seem to be because the 3 car 158s are on the wrong diagrams (so some services are getting an extra carriage) but the majority seem to be the usual '2 cars instead of 4.'

 

[yorksrob]

For use on National Rail services it would have to be "locked into" a line with no possibility of coming into contact with modern stock wouldn't it?

As far as I'm aware, it's exempt from the usual mk1 regs on account of the engine compartments at each end acting as barriers as well as there being CDL.

I believe it substituted for scheduled services on the Marshlink a few years ago.

 

[northernchris]

43 (!) train formations updates currently reported: http://www.journeycheck.com/northernrail

Some seem to be because the 3 car 158s are on the wrong diagrams (so some services are getting an extra carriage) but the majority seem to be the usual '2 cars instead of 4.'

Although 43 sounds bad in reality its probably only 5-6 diagrams. There appears to be a number of diagrams which are short formed routinely (such as 1651 Leeds-Manchester Victoria) and others which just about always have the booked formation (such as 1713 Leeds-Knaresborough). Given there has been a lot of disruption this week it could be a case of units getting swapped around so are in the wrong place

 

[northwichcat]

Although 43 sounds bad in reality its probably only 5-6 diagrams. There appears to be a number of diagrams which are short formed routinely (such as 1651 Leeds-Manchester Victoria) and others which just about always have the booked formation (such as 1713 Leeds-Knaresborough). Given there has been a lot of disruption this week it could be a case of units getting swapped around so are in the wrong place

43 isn't all day though. Just looking now there's 11 reported - the earliest being the 06:20 York to Blackpool North (due 09:23) and the last being the 11:55 Carlisle to Leeds (due 14:37) so it looks like 9 diagrams are affected

 

[northernchris]

43 isn't all day though. Just looking now there's 11 reported - the earliest being the 06:20 York to Blackpool North (due 09:23) and the last being the 11:55 Carlisle to Leeds (due 14:37) so it looks like 9 diagrams are affected

Is there some way of finding out the percentage of short formations across the network? I know TfGM publish info in their rail performance updates but don't think any of the other PTEs do.

 

[RAPC]

Certainly been a tough evening commute home this evening. Cancellations on my line, along with a short formed train meaning that a number of passengers were left behind. Managed to squeeze on to a train that didn't stop at my station, but after a word with the guard, he managed to get clearance to add a stop in for us.

It has been a tough evening for us travellers on my route, but I know it is equally hard on the staff having to deal with angry passengers being left behind, scuffles on the platforms and schedules being delayed due to slow loading and unloading. The guard on the train tonight was of huge credit to Northern. It may not seem like much, but he looked after his passengers tonight and did so cheerfully and without hesitation. I'm certainly very grateful to him.

 

[northwichcat]

Well there seems to be less short formed services now but they are cancelling a number of services due to 'crew member unavailable'

 

[Ant158]

Well there seems to be less short formed services now but they are cancelling a number of services due to 'crew member unavailable'

Seems a bit strange that the Clitheroe to Manchester service is cancelled due to no crew member, when the train is still running (delayed) to Clitheroe, I doubt any members of staff left the train in Clitheroe. Seems like an excuse to get the unit back to Manchester for a later service.

 

[GatwickDepress]

As far as I'm aware, it's exempt from the usual mk1 regs on account of the engine compartments at each end acting as barriers as well as there being CDL.

I believe it substituted for scheduled services on the Marshlink a few years ago.

Yes, I was lucky enough to regularly travel upon it during its final hurrah, as it were!

If any fitter at Southern wouldn't mind damaging a few necessary components on the Tubbys...

 

[northwichcat]

Is there some way of finding out the percentage of short formations across the network? I know TfGM publish info in their rail performance updates but don't think any of the other PTEs do.

Not quite. TfGM know how many services which they subside strengthening on are short formed and in that case a 142+142 formation filling in for a 142+150 formation is short formed. It's different Northern Rail's Journey Check site a 144 filling in for a 333 is '2 carriages instead of 4' (making it sound like half the usual capacity) opposed something like '110 seats instead of 360 seats.' (making it sound like 30% of the usual capacity.)

 

[edwin_m]

I don't see any reply to the OP's question of why Northern is short-forming so many more trains than usual. Is it just a question of seasonal wheelflats and not being able to get them onto the lathe quickly enough?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Seems a bit strange that the Clitheroe to Manchester service is cancelled due to no crew member, when the train is still running (delayed) to Clitheroe, I doubt any members of staff left the train in Clitheroe. Seems like an excuse to get the unit back to Manchester for a later service.

Sounds a bit strange, but looking on Reatimetrains for yesterday the following trains were cancelled throughout....

2N55 1603 Manchester Victoria - Clitheroe (due 1726)
2J60 1744 Clitheroe - Manchester Victoria (due 1857)

I realise realtimetrains isn't foolproof (the reasons for cancellation seem inconsistent for a start), but this seems a more logical situation.

 

[WatcherZero]

The answer was they wernt, it only takes a couple of unavailable units to affects many more services due to intensive diagramming.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, I was lucky enough to regularly travel upon it during its final hurrah, as it were!

If any fitter at Southern wouldn't mind damaging a few necessary components on the Tubbys...

I missed out on that

However I did travel on the four carriage one that used to do the Marshlink until 1989 (think it became a de-icing unit).