Northern Rail - cleaning stepped up?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Doesn't work like that Paul. What they will do is bell their preferred agency and simply ask

'Have you got a few people we can use as cleaners on our trains and at our depots for a few weeks and we'll pay you £x amount'

Then along come the staff and more than likely just told to clean - not to any given standard more than likely in the depot just 'clean'. Out on the trains they will just belitter picking.

No contracts or owt like that, just basic temp staff employ.

Are you sure that Northern Rail do not have agreed standard of depot-based cleaning in a commercial agreement as you would expect from a TOC, in order that these trains leave the depot with toilets checked, windows cleaned, etc ? I do note that this thread can be construed to be in some confusion with what "cleaning" actually refers to....full deep depot cleaning or just in-service litter collection, etc. which are two totally different matters.

Are there any forum members with full knowledge who can confirm the exact position that applies to Northern Rail in this particular matter, in order that both aspects referred to above can receive clarification.

 

[Carlisle]

Are you sure that Northern Rail do not have agreed standard of depot-based cleaning in a commercial agreement as you would expect from a TOC, in order that these trains leave the depot with toilets checked, windows cleaned, etc ? I do note that this thread can be construed to be in some confusion with what "cleaning" actually refers to....full deep depot cleaning or just in-service litter collection, etc. which are two totally different matters.

Are there any forum members with full knowledge who can confirm the exact position that applies to Northern Rail in this particular matter, in order that both aspects referred to above can receive clarification.

I can't comment on the organisation but maybe Northern Rail are too reluctant to invest money in further proper staff or sign a proper long term deal with a cleaning company to address the problem and can be monitored like you say

 

[Northerner]

Why would train service that's busy/overcrowded be more messy? I would be embarrassed to drop litter/coffee cup ect, in from of everyone else. And trains have bins by the doors?

 

[nathanclass323]

Why would train service that's busy/overcrowded be more messy? I would be embarrassed to drop litter/coffee cup ect, in from of everyone else. And trains have bins by the doors?

A large amount of the population think that they can leave litter anywhere and expect someone else to clean it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A large amount of the population think that they can leave litter anywhere and expect someone else to clean it.

The younger generation in particular regard that attitude as "normal"...

 

[WestRiding]

when I was on the trams they had the free metro papers on them. and by the end of the first trip, the tram was covered in old news papers, lovely on a wet day. we simply picked them all up and binned them at the terminus, leaving none at all. clean tram.

 

[PR1Berske]

I'm a "paper left on the train" passenger, using the same logic as leaving a newspaper at the bar after I've read it - if other customers/drinkers/boozers want to pick it up, they can, and if the landlord/staff want to bin it, they can too.

 

[142094]

Problem being when everyone else has the same idea and picks up a Metro at their station/tram stop, and leaves it behind on the seat.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The last time that I used Manchester buses, the floor was littered with discarded Metro newspapers that seem to have been stored when new in a custom-made holder fitted to hold these newspapers.

 

[northwichcat]

Why would train service that's busy/overcrowded be more messy?

Not sure what apart of the North you are in but there was very heavy rain where I was this morning. So this morning I would have expected a lot of footprints to appear on the train floors, the busier the train the more footprints.

Also say you're standing on a train and eating a Mars bar, you finish your Mars bar and put the wrapper in your pocket. You later go to get something out of your pocket and in the process the wrapper falls on the floor but because the train is busy you're less likely to be able to find the wrapper again than if the train was empty.

 

[387star]

I've been using the trains a fair bit recently to go over to Todmorden and I have noticed, in most cases, a marked improvement in cleanliness on the train.

Also, I've seen members of Northern's cleaning crew get on trains, collect any litter that's there, and get off again.

Have Northern finally realised that cleaner trains make for a more pleasant experience?

All we need now is some of the passengers to adopt the same philosophy! :roll:

I was thinking the same of crosscountry actually saw cleaners on a voyager

really guards should help keep a train tidy where possible too

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I was thinking the same of crosscountry actually saw cleaners on a voyager

really guards should help keep a train tidy where possible too

Most of us do move a few papers etc. thats on top of doors, announcements, revenue, customer service etc etc etc

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Most of us do move a few papers etc. thats on top of doors, announcements, revenue, customer service etc etc etc

I was wondering which of our hard-working train staff forum members would be the first to respond to that particular posting.

 

[AndyLandy]

Spent some time with Northern yesterday.

Caught the 1124 Cuddington-Chester (142) and returned on the 1704 Chester-Cuddington (150/1)

Both trains were clean and tidy inside, with reasonably fresh-looking interiors. The ride quality wasn't too bad either. The diesel engines still grumble a bit, but there was none of that wheel-screeching that I'm familiar with on these types of trains.

Looks like we're finally seeing refurbished and reasonable trains. For sure, a Pacer (or even a Sprinter) is never going to win any awards for being the most popular or comfortable train in existence, but they do the job and they're not so horribly unpleasant to ride on as they once were.

 

[northwichcat]

Spent some time with Northern yesterday.

Caught the 1124 Cuddington-Chester (142) and returned on the 1704 Chester-Cuddington (150/1)

Both trains were clean and tidy inside, with reasonably fresh-looking interiors. The ride quality wasn't too bad either. The diesel engines still grumble a bit, but there was none of that wheel-screeching that I'm familiar with on these types of trains.

Had you done Deansgate Junction to Skelton Junction you wouldn't have said that, even the 150s squeal a bit on that section.

The screeching is also less deafening when the windows on the train are closed.

 

[anti-pacer]

Just out of interest, has the Passenger Survey stopped now?

 

[AndyLandy]

Had you done Deansgate Junction to Skelton Junction you wouldn't have said that, even the 150s squeal a bit on that section.

The screeching is also less deafening when the windows on the train are closed.

To be fair, this is the first time in a while that I've gone to Chester on the MCR. The wheel screeching was always very noticeable on the run to Manchester. If memory serves, the WCML stretch between Stockport and Manchester was always pretty bad for it.

 

[jon0844]

It's an honourable thing to leave a newspaper for the next person, but can I ask that people just don't?

It's fine to think that you're doing a service and it's not littering, but that next person boards and wants to sit down and either has his/her own paper or doesn't want to read it - and it's now blocking the seat. So the first thing most people do with a Metro on the seat is move it somewhere else. It might be a luggage rack or it might be the floor.

Or it simply gets knocked off by someone's bag.

When left on seats at platforms, they get sucked off by passing trains and end up all over the place.

If someone else wants a paper, let them get their own! Take the thing with you and dispose of it elsewhere please! Otherwise you are most definitely littering whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[anti-pacer]

It's an honourable thing to leave a newspaper for the next person, but can I ask that people just don't?

It's fine to think that you're doing a service and it's not littering, but that next person boards and wants to sit down and either has his/her own paper or doesn't want to read it - and it's now blocking the seat. So the first thing most people do with a Metro on the seat is move it somewhere else. It might be a luggage rack or it might be the floor.

Or it simply gets knocked off by someone's bag.

When left on seats at platforms, they get sucked off by passing trains and end up all over the place.

If someone else wants a paper, let them get their own! Take the thing with you and dispose of it elsewhere please! Otherwise you are most definitely littering whether you want to admit it or not.

I agree wholeheartedly with that!

 

[northwichcat]

It's an honourable thing to leave a newspaper for the next person, but can I ask that people just don't?

It's fine to think that you're doing a service and it's not littering, but that next person boards and wants to sit down and either has his/her own paper or doesn't want to read it - and it's now blocking the seat. So the first thing most people do with a Metro on the seat is move it somewhere else. It might be a luggage rack or it might be the floor.

Or it simply gets knocked off by someone's bag.

When left on seats at platforms, they get sucked off by passing trains and end up all over the place.

If someone else wants a paper, let them get their own! Take the thing with you and dispose of it elsewhere please! Otherwise you are most definitely littering whether you want to admit it or not.

I do agree that left papers can be an inconvenience - in particular the ones that finish up on the floor get walked on and then someone put's the dirty paper back on to a seat instead of in to the bin.

However, in my local area only some stations get a supply of Metro papers and some of those have run out by around 08:30 so leaving some on the train has benefits for the people who board at a station where there are none available. You also get things like the Manchester Evening News which are handed out for free some days in central Manchester but aren't available for free for passengers using non-central Manchester stations. Some evenings you even get copies of the London Evening Standard left on trains in Cheshire.

Maybe a used paper rack near the doors on the train would be a good idea, then people who've finished with their paper can leave them there when alighting and people without a paper who want one can pick one up when boarding.

 

[PR1Berske]

I believe there is a distinction between leaving an empty bottle or crisp packet behind, and leaving a newspaper behind.

I'm not sure when a newspaper becomes litter - when the crossword is filled in? When it's folded into more than half? When it's on the floor?

Yes, littering on trains is a problem, but throwing away newspapers after reading them once is surely a wasteful, anti-environmental problem?

 

[jon0844]

I believe there is a distinction between leaving an empty bottle or crisp packet behind, and leaving a newspaper behind.

I'm not sure when a newspaper becomes litter - when the crossword is filled in? When it's folded into more than half? When it's on the floor?

Yes, littering on trains is a problem, but throwing away newspapers after reading them once is surely a wasteful, anti-environmental problem?

Is that how you justify in your own mind that leaving a paper isn't littering? It certainly isn't on the same scale as chucking other stuff on the floor, but it's still littering.

I saw a pile of freshly eaten KFC bones on a seat once. I wonder if that person thought that leaving it on a seat instead of the floor didn't count?!

I totally agree about the environmental impact, although heavily recycled paper that then goes on to be recycled again isn't necessarily as big an impact as some glossy magazines that have bleached paper, varnishing and more.

Personally, I'd read Metro on my phone - so the only rubbish is the quality of most of the editorial!

 

[PR1Berske]

Is that how you justify in your own mind that leaving a paper isn't littering? It certainly isn't on the same scale as chucking other stuff on the floor, but it's still littering.

I saw a pile of freshly eaten KFC bones on a seat once. I wonder if that person thought that leaving it on a seat instead of the floor didn't count?!

I totally agree about the environmental impact, although heavily recycled paper that then goes on to be recycled again isn't necessarily as big an impact as some glossy magazines that have bleached paper, varnishing and more.

Personally, I'd read Metro on my phone - so the only rubbish is the quality of most of the editorial!

Clearly leaving uneaten food or similar is littering. There's a vast chasm between leaving chicken bones on a train and leaving a copy of a newspaper.

 

[jon0844]

It's at the opposite end of the scale, yes, but don't pretend that leaving your newspaper behind (even after nicely folding it) isn't still littering.

Ultimately, someone else will have to pick it up and dispose of it properly because you didn't.

 

[PR1Berske]

It's at the opposite end of the scale, yes, but don't pretend that leaving your newspaper behind (even after nicely folding it) isn't still littering.

Ultimately, someone else will have to pick it up and dispose of it properly because you didn't.

Well yes, but that's true of anything left behind, but I dare say other passengers would be more willing to pick up a newspaper or magazine than a empty bottle.

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps.

You're making a big assumption that your nicely folded newspaper will be seen as a nice gift for the next passenger.

I accept you do it with good intentions, but just point out that you might wish to reconsider your kind gesture, which ultimately just results in the carriage being full of discarded papers - on seats, the floor, the luggage racks, the bins and so on.

 

[PR1Berske]

Perhaps.

You're making a big assumption that your nicely folded newspaper will be seen as a nice gift for the next passenger.

I accept you do it with good intentions, but just point out that you might wish to reconsider your kind gesture, which ultimately just results in the carriage being full of discarded papers - on seats, the floor, the luggage racks, the bins and so on.

I feel a taxpayer funded study coming on. "Headline News? At What Point Does A Newspaper Become Litter - are freesheets awarding passengers freedom from... or freedom to...?"

 

[142094]

If you introduced a 10p charge for the Metro you'd no doubt see everyone taking theirs with them. The i is only 20p yet I very rarely see this left behind.

 

[northwichcat]

If you introduced a 10p charge for the Metro you'd no doubt see everyone taking theirs with them. The i is only 20p yet I very rarely see this left behind.

The i has more to read in it and the quality of the articles are better so people are less likely to be finished with it at the end of their journey so possibility take it with them to finish off reading it at lunchtime.

 

[Darren R]

Newspapers left on seats just end up on the floor though. You get on the train, find a seat (if you're lucky! ) only to find a newspaper has been left on it. The first thing you do is put it on the floor beneath the seat (I have to admit I do it myself - although I promise I'll change my ways!) If instead you picked it up to place in the bin you'd get back to the seat to find someone else has pinched it in the meantime!