Northern Rail - cleaning stepped up?

[anti-pacer]

I've been using the trains a fair bit recently to go over to Todmorden and I have noticed, in most cases, a marked improvement in cleanliness on the train.

Also, I've seen members of Northern's cleaning crew get on trains, collect any litter that's there, and get off again.

Have Northern finally realised that cleaner trains make for a more pleasant experience?

All we need now is some of the passengers to adopt the same philosophy! :roll:

 

[185]

Partly to do with both WY & GM PTEs fining the operator where litter or graffiti is not being cleared under their quality monitoring penalty/incentive regimes.

First North Western suffered severely under the previous system (PTE Squire). Putting everything out to contract including your cleaners often costed train companies more than it saved.

 

[Northerner]

Firstly I don't drive for northern, but when I take a train into service first thing in the morning , it is very clean and tidy , but by the time I get to the destination 2 hours later the train is filthy !
I do wonder if it's the same People who complain about the cleanliness of trains are indeed the ones that forget to take the bloody free papers with them!

 

[anti-pacer]

Firstly I don't drive for northern, but when I take a train into service first thing in the morning , it is very clean and tidy , but by the time I get to the destination 2 hours later the train is filthy !
I do wonder if it's the same People who complain about the cleanliness of trains are indeed the ones that forget to take the bloody free papers with them!

I can assure you from my own stance that I don't leave anything on a train, except what I put in the litter bins provided.

 

[Silv1983]

Maybe the team of workers Northern employ to go around the network spreading litter about are on strike?!

Or hopefully, commuters have finally realised that if they take that empty costa cup or metro newspaper with them then the train doesn't turn into a sh*tehole when 150 people do the same thing...

 

[WatcherZero]

Common decency is to leave the papers behind for other passengers to read, same as in coffee shops.

 

[anti-pacer]

Common decency is to leave the papers behind for other passengers to read, same as in coffee shops.

I completely disagree, as said papers end up everywhere on the train. Buses are equally as bad.

Common decency is to read the paper you've picked up, then when finished, put it in a recycling bin.

Apart from anything else, I wouldn't want to read a second-hand paper, not knowing who's had it before me, and how clean (or not) their hands were. :mad:

 

[WatcherZero]

your kidding, many papers will be read 2 or 3 times on a train, If you dont think papers should be left on a train then I wonder how you feel about toc magazines, do you throw those away as someone has read it before as well?

 

[anti-pacer]

your kidding, many papers will be read 2 or 3 times on a train, If you dont think papers should be left on a train then I wonder how you feel about toc magazines, do you throw those away as someone has read it before as well?

I put them back in the rack they came from, knowing my hands are clean, so therefore not creating problems for anybody else.

Metro papers are left on seats, which often end up on the floor, which then end up torn or with people walking on them.

I've seen people read it whilst eating a bacon sandwich or something, so tell me why I'd possibly want to read a second-hand, greasy, torn paper with someone's footprint on it?

 

[IanXC]

Also, I've seen members of Northern's cleaning crew get on trains, collect any litter that's there, and get off again.

Have Northern finally realised that cleaner trains make for a more pleasant experience?

On train cleaning teams working Brough-Hull-Cottingham started quite some time ago, 6-9 months ago I'd say. Interestingly the presence of cleaners seems to have reduced the amount of rubbish passengers are leaving - although that is of course only my observation.

 

[AndyLandy]

Common decency is to leave the papers behind for other passengers to read, same as in coffee shops.

I completely disagree, as said papers end up everywhere on the train. Buses are equally as bad.

There's clearly a balancing act to be had here.

If you're done with a paper, folding it up and leaving it on a table or a seat is a reasonable thing to do. It's there for someone else to read, should they want to. Dropping it on the floor is the process of turning it from a newspaper into litter.

If you find a paper on your table/seat that you don't want to read, either pop it on an empty seat, in the pouch in front of you (if your seat has that) or up in the luggage rack overhead.

Apart from anything else, I wouldn't want to read a second-hand paper, not knowing who's had it before me, and how clean (or not) their hands were.

I take it you're not a believer in libraries then? Do you insist on someone else pressing the 'door open' button to get on and off the train as well?

 

[156441]

Just to clear things up and answer the OP's original question. The past two weeks have been our National passenger survey weeks.

So funnily enough northern have pulled out all the stops doubled the cleaners shifts, unlimited overtime available, managers on trains assisting with litter picks and customer service duties. All to try and get that magical customer service figure up.

Panic not normal service should be resumed soon.

 

[anti-pacer]

I take it you're not a believer in libraries then? Do you insist on someone else pressing the 'door open' button to get on and off the train as well?

Some things are unavoidable, but when I've watched someone cough, splutter, wipe their grease on it, I'm hardly tempted to want to read it after them.

 

[185]

I agree with the comments about recycling.

Commuters should be allowed to travel just the once, then mashed up in a factory to make something useful

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Have Northern finally realised that cleaner trains make for a more pleasant experience?

When I first saw this thread, I assumed "cleaner" trains meant the condition of internal cleanliness of the seats, toilets, windows, etc of the units after leaving the depot to commence duty, rather than that of litter that was deposited by the rail passengers.

 

[AndyLandy]

Some things are unavoidable, but when I've watched someone cough, splutter, wipe their grease on it, I'm hardly tempted to want to read it after them.

True, that. I wouldn't either.

When I first saw this thread, I assumed "cleaner" trains meant the condition of internal cleanliness of the seats, toilets, windows, etc of the units after leaving the depot to commence duty, rather than that of litter that was deposited by the rail passengers.

You highlight an interesting point that the two issues are arguably separate things. Any train that's in-service is likely to accumulate some litter as people leave behind newspapers and takeaway coffee cups etc.

But for a very long time, some of Northern's trains were really filthy. Toilet doors that wouldn't shut properly. Loos that didn't flush. Dirt and grime all over the walls and floor. I've rode on some pretty squalid 150s in my time.

Recently, however, they've seemed a lot better. Cleaned up inside, new covers on the seating. I do hope that something's changed to encourage cleaner trains.

 

[northwichcat]

Firstly I don't drive for northern, but when I take a train into service first thing in the morning , it is very clean and tidy , but by the time I get to the destination 2 hours later the train is filthy !

Does the train have a serverly overcrowded section somewhere? If so that'll pretty much explain it.

 

[PR1Berske]

Just to clear things up and answer the OP's original question. The past two weeks have been our National passenger survey weeks.

So funnily enough northern have pulled out all the stops doubled the cleaners shifts, unlimited overtime available, managers on trains assisting with litter picks and customer service duties. All to try and get that magical customer service figure up.

Panic not normal service should be resumed soon.

I just knew this would be the real reason!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Just to clear things up and answer the OP's original question. The past two weeks have been our National passenger survey weeks.

So funnily enough northern have pulled out all the stops doubled the cleaners shifts, unlimited overtime available, managers on trains assisting with litter picks and customer service duties. All to try and get that magical customer service figure up.

Panic not normal service should be resumed soon.

Not Cynical at all are you 156

 

[anti-pacer]

Not Cynical at all are you 156

But is he right?

 

[Carlisle]

Northern seem pretty clueless on organising their cleaning program long term, yes they did the admirable act of bringing the cleaners in house a few years ago but keep employing agency folk for a few weeeks here and there so a sparkling train one week will be filthy a few weeks later when the extra staff have been sent packing

 

[T3P0]

Northern seem pretty clueless on organising their cleaning program long term, yes they did the admirable act of bringing the cleaners in house a few years ago but keep employing agency folk for a few weeeks here and there so a sparkling train one week will be filthy a few weeks later when the extra staff have been sent packing

There have been Agency staff at my location for the last 12 Months (maybe longer) working onboard specific services. In the past week extra Agency staff have been taken on to cover more of the evening peak, and yes it's all because of the survey

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Northern seem pretty clueless on organising their cleaning program long term, yes they did the admirable act of bringing the cleaners in house a few years ago but keep employing agency folk for a few weeks here and there so a sparkling train one week will be filthy a few weeks later when the extra staff have been sent packing

Well, based upon what you say, Northern Rail will be well within their rights to withold payment to the agency supplies with full details of the poor standard of cleaning that was carried out in the period when you have described when "filthy" post-cleaning was carried out. I am sure that the legal advisors to Northern Rail will advise on the best course of action to take over this.

"Not fit for purpose" may not be the correct terminology for the supply of unsatisfactory cleaning to a contract that will have agreed standards written into the legally-binding agreement that will be in force, but I am sure that the "legal eagles" will have no difficulty in phrasing the matter and will take the matter through the courts if deemed to be necessary.

 

[Carlisle]

Well, based upon what you say, Northern Rail will be well within their rights to withold payment to the agency supplies with full details of the poor standard of cleaning that was carried out in the period when you have described when "filthy" post-cleaning was carried out. I am sure that the legal advisors to Northern Rail will advise on the best course of action to take over this.

"Not fit for purpose" may not be the correct terminology for the supply of unsatisfactory cleaning to a contract that will have agreed standards written into the legally-binding agreement that will be in force, but I am sure that the "legal eagles" will have no difficulty in phrasing the matter and will take the matter through the courts if deemed to be necessary.

Thats an interesting view but not applicable to the scenario I mentioned,from what I have heard staff have been recruited via agency supposedly for long term only to be finished sometimes a few weeks later so the additional cleaning is no longer done so the trains deteorate again

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Thats an interesting view but not applicable to the scenario I mentioned,from what I have heard staff have been recruited via agency supposedly for long term only to be finished sometimes a few weeks later so the additional cleaning is no longer done so the trains deteorate again

You appear to be addressing the matter of the staff employed by the agency, but my point was to address the condition of the trains that the agency in question had contractually agreed to clean to an agreed standard under the terms of an agreement. If these trains were "filthy" in the post-cleaning stage, then the agency are said to be in breach of the agreement. The agency should have supervisors to evaluate the standard of the cleaning that has been carried out. The hiring of staff is an internal matter for the agency in order to ensure that the contract was fulfilled to the written terms of the contract.

Sorry to sound like a senior management spokesman, but that was my position in industry for the last thirty years prior to my retirement.

 

[175001]

panic not normal service should be resumed soon.

:d:d:d:d

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Metro papers are left on seats, which often end up on the floor, which then end up torn or with people walking on them.

I've seen people read it whilst eating a bacon sandwich or something, so tell me why I'd possibly want to read a second-hand, greasy, torn paper with someone's footprint on it?

It's mostly females who discard papers and cups on the floor, I once said to one lass that if I slipped on that paper, I wouldn't sue the train company I'd sure the person who put it there - that lass later put the paper in the bin as she knew I was watching her.

 

[Darren R]

In defence of Northern (not fashionable, I know! ) I would say there is nothing either new or unusual about on-train cleaners hopping on-and off. In my bit of non-PTE NorthernLand I see them all the time, and have done for a couple of years at least. Not only do I see them picking up litter and emptying the bins, I also see them doing actual cleaning - checking the toilets, wiping surfaces down, doing the windows and internal panels.

But as Paul Sidorczukc suggests, there is the world of difference between 'clean' and 'tidy.' There's only so much they can do with a rubbish bag and damp cloth!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I suppose that it is too much to expect that the provision of services stated in a franchise agreement should have an agreed level of cleanliness that can be subject to strictures should these fall below that agreed level in any week/month.

 

[Clip]

You appear to be addressing the matter of the staff employed by the agency, but my point was to address the condition of the trains that the agency in question had contractually agreed to clean to an agreed standard under the terms of an agreement. If these trains were "filthy" in the post-cleaning stage, then the agency are said to be in breach of the agreement. The agency should have supervisors to evaluate the standard of the cleaning that has been carried out. The hiring of staff is an internal matter for the agency in order to ensure that the contract was fulfilled to the written terms of the contract.

Sorry to sound like a senior management spokesman, but that was my position in industry for the last thirty years prior to my retirement.

Doesnt work like that Paul. What they will do is bell their preferred agency and simply ask

'Have you got a few people we can use as cleaners on our trains and at our depots for a few weeks and we'll pay you £x amount'

Then along come the staff and more than likely just told to clean - not to any given standard more than likely in the depot just 'clean'. Out on the trains they will just belitter picking.

No contracts or owt like that, just basic temp staff employ.