Northern Rail Class 150 & 142 Refreshment

[driver9000]

All units will eventually have the DKS in the vestibule, including the ATN 142s. Leaving the DKS switched in a definite no no!!

 

[LilLoaf]

Ex FGW 142s all had DKS on the outside of the cab.

The ex ATN units have them inside of the cab.

On the 156's is the switch in the door button panel thing?
A few days ago i say a guard operate the doors from the front because it was so busy he just opened the flap where the buttons are and opened the doors from there. Don't think he went in the cab.

It was an EX ATN set.

 

[mbonwick]

142007 had an engine failure at Newton Le Willows the other night and all it needed was some oil and because of that they now put a 156 on that diagram.

Hardly. If an engine runs out of oil, it will seize.

 

[driver9000]

They have a self preservation mode, if the oil gets too low it shuts it self down.

 

[KaiserBurton]

The ex ATN units have them inside of the cab.

On the 156's is the switch in the door button panel thing?
A few days ago i say a guard operate the doors from the front because it was so busy he just opened the flap where the buttons are and opened the doors from there. Don't think he went in the cab.

It was an EX ATN set.

He may have asked the driver to key in for him to save a journey back to his cab. Another definate no no.

 

[P156KWJ]

Hardly. If an engine runs out of oil, it will seize.

that's right - nearly as frothy as the 'troubled commuters' on the Tarka line who said all of a sudden loads of bolts were falling off the 142s they had on the line.

 

[Mojo]

Thanks for that useful info , but I do wonder if this is company policy of Northern, or an actual requirement for the industry in general? I say this as I very rarely (if ever) see FGW staff do this. Even ones in training with another guard, who seem to do things by the book [1] don't do it when they go off to do tickets.

[1] By this, I mean that ones in training tend to open the local door, check the train and then open the other doors. I understand from a question I asked on these forums last year that this is supposed to be done, but I hardly ever see it with the more "experienced" guys. Likewise many of them close the other doors, check they're closed and the orange light is out and then close the local door, but a few of them just close them all up and buzz off straight away.

I could tell you a rather amusing story from when I was doing the annual passenger count on the Severn Beach line in June, but maybe it's not the best of ideas in a public forum!

 

[KaiserBurton]

Its true that most guards pick up bad habits as they gain experience. I myself have the particularly nasty habit of giving the ready to start signal without closing the local door (however, this is only possible on a 150/1 due to the slam doors).

 

[TEW]

I myself have the particularly nasty habit of giving the ready to start signal without closing the local door (however, this is only possible on a 150/1 due to the slam doors).

Due to the 150/1s being new and far between on FGW the guards seem to have great fun doing that.

 

[KaiserBurton]

LOL yeah but if we got caught it would be a bit unpleasant!

 

[LilLoaf]

With reguards to someone talking about the opening local door and then the other doors. Its apparently done to make sure the rest of the train is in the station, a health and safety thing apparently it came in recently H&S have gone mad i think.

Most guards just do this to see how many passengers are getting on train so they know how many fares to collect.

Also there no safety issue with just closing all doors at once as the guard can give the signal (buzz) but driver carn't buzz back if there is a door open. If there is a door open they can just walk along and close it by hand from inside the train.

 

[Mojo]

Well I heard stories from a good few years ago where the guard used to leave the local door open to see the train out of the station, but we seem to have a thing about every door requiring interlock nowadays.

 

[John_158]

Alot of Merseyrail Guards tend to only close there external cab door towards the train reaching the end of the platfrom.

 

[KaiserBurton]

That's true. It's impossible, on all units except ones with slam doors, to give the ready to start signal if the TIS (Traction Interlock Switch) isn't operating i.e. If a door is open. You can tell this by the orange hazard lights on the side of the train. But there are three more instances that will cause said lights to remain illuminated. These are if the AFFF (Aqueous Film Forming Foam) system has been activated, if the TCA (Track Circuit Actuator) isn't operating and if the Passenger Communication Apparatus has been activated. So if all doors are closed and you still have a hazard light on, it's one of those three.

 

[Skie]

Alot of Merseyrail Guards tend to only close there external cab door towards the train reaching the end of the platfrom.

I think they use the foot in door technique for that.

 

[P156KWJ]

Well I heard stories from a good few years ago where the guard used to leave the local door open to see the train out of the station, but we seem to have a thing about every door requiring interlock nowadays.

they used to right up until 2003 on stock in daily use with no CDL (i.e. thumpers on the Uckfield and Hastings lines) and I've seen it on 150/1s before. We still have to at work with the GLV, as CDL is isolated.

 

[Mojo]

they used to right up until 2003 on stock in daily use with no CDL (i.e. thumpers on the Uckfield and Hastings lines) and I've seen it on 150/1s before. We still have to at work with the GLV, as CDL is isolated.

I'm talking about trains with automatic doors.

 

[P156KWJ]

150/1s have the passenger doors as auto though!

 

[driver9000]

If the train departs with the guard standing in the local slam door of a 150/1 or any other train with slam doors this is a Door open in traffic incident and will be classed as a Safety of the line incident - resulting in disciplinary action.

The reason the guard has to close the train doors leaving his local door open and then look again before returning to the train and closing his door is 1. to ensure all hazard lights are out, 2. nothing is trapped in a door, and 3. to make sure the starting signal is clear is applicable. This is a requirement of the Rulebook and has been for many years, even before power operated doors became the norm.

Opening the local door and checking the whole train is accomodated in the platform before releasing the passenger doors has also been in the Rulebook for many years.

 

[Mojo]

150/1s have the passenger doors as auto though!

Yes, I know, but I heard about it on Merseyrail pacers a good few years ago. I might be getting my wires crossed however and instead have heard about it on Merseyrail 50xs which, AFAIAA do not have interlock on the staff doors.

 

[alex57601]

Didn't think that they had luggage racks in the FNW ones - thought in one end they had normal seating, and the other end there was a bench seat and just a bike rack?

The bike space on the ex-FNW 150s is above the luggage rack, and you're correct in saying it is located at one end of the unit only.

 

[507 001]

Merseyrail 507's and 8's do not have an interlock on the cab doors therefore can be opened anywhere.

have you ever tried to keep one of those doors open?

 

[LilLoaf]

Opening the local door and checking the whole train is accomodated in the platform before releasing the passenger doors has also been in the Rulebook for many years. WRONG -

Not sure what you class as many years but its been in a few certainly no more than 10, maybe no more than 5. There was no mention of it, if its a really long train and a short platform them common sence would suggest that the guard would check.

 

[John_158]

One thing that Northern Should introduce during the Refreshemnt of there trins is Door Controls at Each or every other set of Doors nmaley on 142-150-156 Class Trains to save the Guards runnig all the way back to the cab to release the doors.

 

[KaiserBurton]

That would be nice but it's also a longshot. Seeing as though we've been begging for the DKS to be on the outside of the cab for god knows how long!

 

[John_158]

One thing that bugs me about he 142 & 150 Refreshment is that it seems to take a very long time as you see one unit done and no other unit for absoultley ages.

And what do they do with all the money they save on paint ?

 

[KaiserBurton]

One thing that bugs me about he 142 & 150 Refreshment is that it seems to take a very long time as you see one unit done and no other unit for absoultley ages.

And what do they do with all the money they save on paint ?

Sponsor rugby teams and send us on family fun days!

 

[D841]

While its never going to be Business class on an airline, at least an effort is being made to tidy the trains up a bit.

I like the Northern moquette, its understated and easy on the eye it looks good on high backed seating and also on the bench seating in the 142.

I agree. I've travelled on several refreshed Northern units recently, including 153 328 yesterday. The seat colour looks classy, and the seats are very comfortable.

 

[ed1971]

I came back on 142033 today from Leeds to Skipton (a Morecambe service) and to be quite honest if you try and refurbish a 142 it won't make it any better than it ever was. 142's are at the end of their lives and I bet that by 2010 some of the class will have been withdrawn as life expired.
Here's some pics-sos for the quality as it was rather dark.

I cannot agree that 142s are life expired just yet. I have been on well and truly life expired DMUs and EMUs in the 1980s. The worst of them were the old class 104s with their decrepid wooden stained filthy interiors, the awful engine vibrations, poor ride quality (far worse than a Pacer) and the exhaust fumes that found their way into the interiors as depicted on this video: -

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=rmeMKaR-TJU

The Pacers are brilliant in comparison.

 

[John_158]

I cannot agree that 142s are life expired just yet. I have been on well and truly life expired DMUs and EMUs in the 1980s. The worst of them were the old class 104s with their decrepid wooden stained filthy interiors, the awful engine vibrations, poor ride quality (far worse than a Pacer) and the exhaust fumes that found there way into the interiors as depicted on this video: -

Sounds abit like EMTs ex CT Green 158s exept 158783

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=rmeMKaR-TJU

The Pacers are brilliant in comparison.