Northern Rail and its vanishing trains.

[yorksrob]

Turned up for my usual 7:26 train only to find it not running. Not cancelled or even "delayed", but to use Doc Brown's phrase "erased from existance".

This seems to be a shoddy way to treat passengers, just removing trains willy-nilly. Apparently there are engineering works near Sheffield, however that doesn't excuse just wiping trains from the timetable without so much as a bye or leave.

 

[The exile]

Turned up for my usual 7:26 train only to find it not running. Not cancelled or even "delayed", but to use Doc Brown's phrase "erased from existance".

This seems to be a shoddy way to treat passengers, just removing trains willy-nilly. Apparently there are engineering works near Sheffield, however that doesn't excuse just wiping trains from the timetable without so much as a bye or leave.

One of the many drawbacks of technology and, in this specific case, the replacement of proper timetables with “journey planners” “because it’s easier” Yes, it’s easier - for the powers that be to cancel a train at the last minute without so much as a by your leave and, more importantly, to cover their tracks.

 

[yorksrob]

One of the many drawbacks of technology and, in this specific case, the replacement of proper timetables with “journey planners” “because it’s easier” Yes, it’s easier - for the powers that be to cancel a train at the last minute without so much as a by your leave and, more importantly, to cover their tracks.

Yes, I've not seen a paper timetable at my local station for a while.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

If you go on realtime trains in detailed mode an select the by default unselected box labelled CAN, does it show up then?
I can see a lot of trains cancelled in that way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you go on realtime trains in detailed mode an select the by default unselected box labelled CAN, does it show up then?
I can see a lot of trains cancelled in that way.

That's "P coding". which gets them off paying Delay Repay. It really needs to stop, just like declaring Do Not Travel when you are just struggling to get staff on a Sunday because the weather forecast is nice or a bit unpleasant to get out of bed*. Northern are guilty of both.

Edit: interesting that this was for engineering works - but Northern misuse P-coding so often that it was a bit like crying wolf!

* For avoidance of doubt/controversy, staff are allowed to do this as Sundays are voluntary on the affected parts of Northern. Therefore this post is not a criticism of staff.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I suppose to be clear, the train hasn't be cancelled at the last minute, it has not been wiped from the timetable willy-nilly. It hasn't been in the planners for months, I know because the 06:28 from Woodlesford is similarly affected. Because of the huge amount of engineering work due to TRU on my commute I check for each week which trains are running so picked this up months ago.

That doesn't justify it at all, but probably changes the question to, was the major engineering possession at Sheffield advertised sufficiently well? I have seen no information on it, despite using services on a line to Sheffield which is impacted. I haven't seen or heard anything in Leeds either, I dug into it based on noticing it when checking potential TRU disruption between Leeds and York. Based on the OPs experience today, combined with mine we can at least say its not been advertised perfectly!

 

[Peterthegreat]

I suppose to be clear, the train hasn't be cancelled at the last minute, it has not been wiped from the timetable willy-nilly. It hasn't been in the planners for months, I know because the 06:28 from Woodlesford is similarly affected. Because of the huge amount of engineering work due to TRU on my commute I check for each week which trains are running so picked this up months ago.

That doesn't justify it at all, but probably changes the question to, was the major engineering possession at Sheffield advertised sufficiently well? I have seen no information on it, despite using services on a line to Sheffield which is impacted. I haven't seen or heard anything in Leeds either, I dug into it based on noticing it when checking potential TRU disruption between Leeds and York. Based on the OPs experience today, combined with mine we can at least say its not been advertised perfectly!

Exactly this. The work has been planned for some time. Certainly in South Yorkshire posters have been been on display at stations for a couple of weeks. Announcements have also been made on local trains in the area.
I think part of the problem is that it isn't particularly obvious the engineering work 30 miles away affects @yorksrob's train to work.
The other issue I have is whether the train/bus plan is adequate and whether more trains could run.

Photo below of engineering work poster.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Exactly this. The work has been planned for some time. Certainly in South Yorkshire posters have been been on display at stations for a couple of weeks. Announcements have also been made on local trains in the area.
I think part of the problem is that it isn't particularly obvious the engineering work 30 miles away affects @yorksrob's train to work.
The other issue I have is whether the train/bus plan is adequate and whether more trains could run.

Photo below of engineering work poster.View attachment 197205

Yep I definitely have not seen one of those. And Sherburn in Elmet residents also weren't aware of the Sheffield York services not running. So it seems the nuanced small changes further away, the one a day services are the ones not communicated.

 

[D6130]

That's "P coding". which gets them off paying Delay Repay. It really needs to stop, just like declaring Do Not Travel when you are just struggling to get staff on a Sunday because the weather forecast is nice or a bit unpleasant to get out of bed*. Northern are guilty of both.

* For avoidance of doubt/controversy, staff are allowed to do this as Sundays are voluntary on the affected parts of Northern. Therefore this post is not a criticism of staff.

I beg to differ! Sunday working may be voluntary on the ex-North Western part of Northern....but on the ex-North Eastern side -which includes the OP's route - it's been a rostered part of the working week for the best part of twenty five years.

 

[yorksrob]

Thanks for the replies.

It looks as though Barnsley's lost at least one train to Leeds per hour as well, which must be annoying there.

 

[D365]

The poster doesn't even explain that Cleethorpes services are terminating at Doncaster this week. As opposed to, say, Rotherham Central or Meadowhall.

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps I've just missed the poster at my local station - I must admit I tend to walk past the notice board. I'll have a snoop around when I get back.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Perhaps I've just missed the poster at my local station - I must admit I tend to walk past the notice board. I'll have a snoop around when I get back.

I think that's part of the problem.
Regular travellers probably go around with their eyes closed (figuratively speaking).
There are of course a plethora of posters advertising all kinds of things.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2026 ==

The poster doesn't even explain that Cleethorpes services are terminating at Doncaster this week. As opposed to, say, Rotherham Central or Meadowhall.

Ah for that you need to look at the TPE poster!

 

[yorksrob]

I think that's part of the problem.
Regular travellers probably go around with their eyes closed (figuratively speaking).
There are of course a plethora of posters advertising all kinds of things.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2026 ==


Ah for that you need to look at the TPE poster!

If at all possible, I do think that Northern should have replicated the existing timetable for Barnsley - Leeds (although turn backs and sidings may have been an issue).

 

[Falcon1200]

Perhaps, last week, announcements should have been made on services affected by the alterations, especially those not running this week!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I beg to differ! Sunday working may be voluntary on the ex-North Western part of Northern....but on the ex-North Eastern side -which includes the OP's route - it's been a rostered part of the working week for the best part of twenty five years.

I did say "the affected parts of Northern", not "all of Northern".

 

[The exile]

Most stations now have screens and auto announcements. Where forthcoming timetable changes are planned, maybe for about a week or two in advance they should add “This train will be retimed /not run from 2nd to 13th February” ( or whatever - but using the screens / announcements for their real purpose!)

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Thanks for the replies.

It looks as though Barnsley's lost at least one train to Leeds per hour as well, which must be annoying there.

Yep, the trains to Leeds that would normally start from Lincoln are cancelled and the trains that would normally start from Nottingham are starting from Meadowhall.

On the return it's the opposite; the trains from Leeds that would normally go to Nottingham are cancelled and the trains that normally go to Lincoln are terminating at Meadowhall.

 

[yorksrob]

I notice that the critical first train of the morning from my station to Leeds has also been canned. This will be a particular nuisance to people.

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Yep, the trains to Leeds that would normally start from Lincoln are cancelled and the trains that would normally start from Nottingham are starting from Meadowhall.

On the return it's the opposite; the trains from Leeds that would normally go to Nottingham are cancelled and the trains that normally go to Lincoln are terminating at Meadowhall.

It seems to wipe out all the Normanton peak extras annoyingly.

 

[johntea]

Perhaps I've just missed the poster at my local station - I must admit I tend to walk past the notice board. I'll have a snoop around when I get back.

At Castleford there is a poster explaining ALL the upcoming engineering works for January/February/March (for I believe anything Northern related rather than just the more local related stuff) which is basically just a big wall of text the average person isn't going to stop and study in detail

I did see an amusing poster at Manchester Piccadilly the other day regarding the engineering works there with the headline 'Remember Valentine's Day + 9'!

 

[ChrisC]

Exactly this. The work has been planned for some time. Certainly in South Yorkshire posters have been been on display at stations for a couple of weeks. Announcements have also been made on local trains in the area.
I think part of the problem is that it isn't particularly obvious the engineering work 30 miles away affects @yorksrob's train to work.
The other issue I have is whether the train/bus plan is adequate and whether more trains could run.

Photo below of engineering work poster.View attachment 197205

Even at stations where these posters have been displayed it can be difficult for passengers to understand why their trains are cancelled from stations like Lincoln. Lincoln is almost 50 miles away from the engineering works at Sheffield yet all Northern trains cancelled with no trains running at least to Retford and Worksop. From the poster it also doesn’t indicate that EMR are still running some trains between Lincoln, Saxilby and Gainsborough.
Many in this forum will have some understanding why this is the case as Northern do not have any trains stabled in Lincoln or staff based there. However, that is not obvious to the general public.

 

[nr758123]

At Castleford there is a poster explaining ALL the upcoming engineering works for January/February/March (for I believe anything Northern related rather than just the more local related stuff) which is basically just a big wall of text the average person isn't going to stop and study in detail

That will be the same poster as has been displayed at Slaithwaite station, managed by Northern but the last time any of their trains called there was December 2018. I did not see any TPE posters informing passengers of bus replacement last weekend and next weekend.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I notice that the critical first train of the morning from my station to Leeds has also been canned. This will be a particular nuisance to people.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2026 ==



It seems to wipe out all the Normanton peak extras annoyingly.

Yep that is the first of the day from Woodlesford too, slightly compensated by the 06:41, which is only 13 minutes later, and due to timetabling conflicts at Leeds, arrives only a few minutes later. But that comes from Pontefract so a fat lot of use for you.
Quite a few at work were surprised by some of these cuts so you weren't alone at all. I had noted it but completely forgot this morning and it was only as I got up late that it didn't catch me out.

 

[yorksrob]

The other irritating aspect is that we seem to have a lot of 150's, which are inadequate for peak hour services at the best of times

 

[Condor7]

I feel sorry for passengers at Barrow in Furness, a station that had its own sleeper service until I believed the early1990’s.
It still has limited nighttime trains to and from Manchester airport but these are frequently canceled mainly due to staffing problems (or so Realtime Trains say) but those poor customers turning up to catch their train to meet with a flight at the airport have no other choice of trains. I would have thought these nighttime trains would have prior.

 

[yorksrob]

I have to say that, given I live nowhere near Sheffield, it's been a huge nuisance and I'll be glad when its over.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I have to say that, given I live nowhere near Sheffield, it's been a huge nuisance and I'll be glad when its over.

Agree 100%.
Yesterday I travelled from Sheffield to Swinton.
Bus Sheffield to Rotherham - 53 mind
Wait at Rotherham 17 mins.
Bus to Swinton 20 mins.
Walk home from Bus stop 5 mins.
Total 95 mins
Normally
Train Sheffield to Swinton 23 mins
Walk home 17 mins.
Total 40 mins.

 

[yorksrob]

Agree 100%.
Yesterday I travelled from Sheffield to Swinton.
Bus Sheffield to Rotherham - 53 mind
Wait at Rotherham 17 mins.
Bus to Swinton 20 mins.
Walk home from Bus stop 5 mins.
Total 95 mins
Normally
Train Sheffield to Swinton 23 mins
Walk home 17 mins.
Total 40 mins.

Indeed. Hopefully they've "cleared the throat" North of Sheffield for the timebeing !

 

[Tom]

That's "P coding". which gets them off paying Delay Repay. It really needs to stop, just like declaring Do Not Travel when you are just struggling to get staff on a Sunday because the weather forecast is nice or a bit unpleasant to get out of bed*. Northern are guilty of both.

In the scenario described in this thread, it is not P coding. P coding specifically references the use of the cancellation code PG. However a lot of people think it also includes PD which is an extremely commonly code automatically used by TRUST for every WTT cancellation on call.

If you go on realtime trains in detailed mode an select the by default unselected box labelled CAN, does it show up then?
I can see a lot of trains cancelled in that way.

This also is not the clearest way of doing it - as a cancelled service can be anything from a train cancelled since bookings released up to and including a planned timetable of the day cancellation. (And in some cases, even on the day)

 

[rapmastaj]

Thanks for the replies.

It looks as though Barnsley's lost at least one train to Leeds per hour as well, which must be annoying there.

I was also caught out by this this week. I didn't check and turned up for a Barnsley train that didn't exist. Then the train I was on broke down between Wakefield and Barnsley. Then on the return journey the remaining hourly service which was still showing as running on realtimetrains and the trainline, was in fact also cancelled because it was the same broken down unit stuck in Barnsley station. So what should have been a quick trip turned into a five and a half hour marathon.