Northern Rail - Advice needed

[12345]

Hi All,

I would like some advice. I recently made a short journey in manchester and bought the ticket using my young persons rail card (by habit). The ticket should of cost £3 something, but discount I paid £2ish. When leaving the station, Northern Rail stopped me and asked for my ticket and rail card, which I produced. They then showed me that my rail card had ran out at the beginning of the month. I apologised and offered to buy a correct ticket. They then threatened me with criminal records and fines etc unless i gave my details.

I have now received 'initial contact' letter from NR debt recovery & prosecutions unit. This letter just outlines the law, weighted towards fines and prosecution, it simply request my comments and details. I would like your advice on how to respond to this.

I apologise for wasting your time with such a trivial matter. However, with all the threats of legal action, I am afraid that anything I write to them, could/will be used to incriminate myself further. From simply filling in my details, signing and dating this letter or by using the wrong approach in response to this letter.

How should I respond?
More importantly, what shouldn't I say in my response?
Do Northern Rail appreciate honesty or are they just interested in collecting fines and taking me to court?

 

[samxool]

everyone appreciates honesty. Be utterly honest. Don't make any more lies.
have you been caught like this before?

write down everything that happened honestly, don't make any excuses, say you made a mistake, say you've used this as a lesson to learn from your mistake and that it will never happen again, and say you would like to resolve this matter by offering to pay a penalty (at least £100)
others will be better advised on how to procede

 

[12345]

everyone appreciates honesty. Be utterly honest. Don't make any more lies.
have you been caught like this before?

write down everything that happened honestly, don't make any excuses, say you made a mistake, say you've used this as a lesson to learn from your mistake and that it will never happen again, and say you would like to resolve this matter by offering to pay a penalty (at least £100)
others will be better advised on how to proceed

You seem to be implying that I knowingly exploited my, now out of date railcard. This was not the case. I genuinely believed that I was traveling with a legitimate ticket, until I was stopped. As for your advice to voluntarily give a company money, why? to-what-end? based on fear? This may be one way to resolve my situation, however, there must be better and sainer options available?

I do agree that "everyone appreciates honesty", however, private corporations rarely do. I am trying to gain an insight into how Northern Rail will deal with my situation. Do they see fines/court action as an extra income stream which they exploit for maximum gain or do they value customer loyalty and appreciate honesty?

 

[yorkie]

and say you would like to resolve this matter by offering to pay a penalty (at least £100)

Northern have been known to settle for the fare due, or an £80 out of court settlement (which they call a "Fixed Penalty"), but it would be Northern's decision.

While the rest of your post is good advice, I'm not sure it's wise to offer to "pay a penalty".

 

[Chapeltom]

You seem to be implying that I knowingly exploited my, now out of date railcard. This was not the case. I genuinely believed that I was traveling with a legitimate ticket, until I was stopped. As for your advice to voluntarily give a company money, why? to-what-end? based on fear? This may be one way to resolve my situation, however, there must be better and sainer options available?

I do agree that "everyone appreciates honesty", however, private corporations rarely do. I am trying to gain an insight into how Northern Rail will deal with my situation. Do they see fines/court action as an extra income stream which they exploit for maximum gain or do they value customer loyalty and appreciate honesty?

Bear in mind you have committed an offence, whether with intent or not. You have breached the railway bye-laws by not travelling with a valid ticket, no intent has to be proven. The amount you may perceive Northern have lost may be small, they have prosecuted people over 10p, the issue will not be seen as trivial by them unfortunately.

If your railcard was 2-3 days out of date, I'd suggest leniency would be shown but several weeks does look suspicious to anyone casually looking in on the case. Northern may well be thinking, asking themselves has this person been buying railcard tickets on multiple occasions with an expired railcard. I'm not suggesting you have, but this is the mindset they may have.

If it went to court, Northern would not make much out of that and you'd be landed with a criminal record, albeit with a non recordable offence and at least £200 out of pocket. Northern are known to offer to settle out of court for an £80 fee which they will offer, but they do not have to.

 

[SPADTrap]

You seem to be implying that I knowingly exploited my, now out of date railcard. This was not the case. I genuinely believed that I was traveling with a legitimate ticket, until I was stopped. As for your advice to voluntarily give a company money, why? to-what-end? based on fear? This may be one way to resolve my situation, however, there must be better and sainer options available?

I do agree that "everyone appreciates honesty", however, private corporations rarely do. I am trying to gain an insight into how Northern Rail will deal with my situation. Do they see fines/court action as an extra income stream which they exploit for maximum gain or do they value customer loyalty and appreciate honesty?

And you seem to be implying that Northern are somehow robbing you, ignorance isn't a defence sadly and unless you change your attitude you'll make the situation worse. You have committed an offence and it is your responsibility to check your railcard is in date. Quite how so many fail this is beyond me but that is a different argument and of no help to you.

Respond sensibly and honestly, follow the advice given here. You're not being exploited.

 

[Greenback]

Do they see fines/court action as an extra income stream which they exploit for maximum gain or do they value customer loyalty and appreciate honesty?

I think that their prime motive is to encourage people to ensure they have a valid ticket (and railcard) before boarding a train wherever possible, and the fee that they charge is intended to act as a deterrent to 'forgetfulness'. A financial loss does tend to focus a little bit more than posters, notices, announcements and they like.

Plus, what use is customer loyalty when that customer is causing the company to lose money?

I suspect that would be the company view on the points your raise!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I would await their letter. I would expect that they will offer to dispose of it with a Fixed Penalty Notice, which will be £80 plus the cost of the ticket you should have bought. You will have fourteen days to pay this otherwise they may prosecute you.

They do not have to offer a Fixed Penalty Notice and they are perfectly entitled to prosecute you.

The trouble is that Northern can't tell the difference between someone who forgot that their railcard was out of date and someone who "forgot" that their railcard was out of date. So they will treat everyone the same: that they don't have a ticket. I don't like the Northern fixed penalty notice scheme, but you would be very well advised to pay it. Consider it an expensive lesson in checking you have all your correct documentation before boarding a train.