Northern Rail 323 Diagrams

[luke1420]

I regularly travel on the 15:50 service from Crewe to Piccadilly when it arrives in Piccadilly at about 16:43 it forms the 16:48 to Stoke-on-Trent and this seems to be the way it works during peak times.

But during off peak times the XX:43 arrival from Crewe seems to work the XX:04 back to Crewe and the XX:56 arrival from Stoke seems to sit in Piccadilly for 52 mins and then run the next XX:48 to Stoke.

But why is this? i don't really see the point, i understand they will need spare 323's but surely they would just keep a 323 there all day in case another one fails?

 

[156441]

The 323's stable at Stockport and Longsight at the end of the day so it's just to stop them getting jumbled up.

Also diesels are not allowed to step up for EMU's on the line to Stoke due to the line speed and pathing issues which means control will always want a 323 for that service where as Crewes and Airports can be subbed for DMU's

 

[Thomas6187]

It's more to do with saving against delay's, by increasing turnaround at Piccadilly. If the peak pattern is used all day a small delay could result in a larger delay, and start delaying long distance service, within a few hours.

During the peak it allows Northern to operate an extra service to Stoke with the resource they have.

 

[luke1420]

Ok, thanks for the replies


Out of interest dose anybody have any examples of NR 323 diagrams?

 

[rm88]

Why does the xx51 from sandbach sit at Crewe for nearly an hour. Trains pass each other between crewe and sandbach. If it was re timed, then it could leave sandbach at xx34 and form the xx50 out of crewe to manchester

 

[6Gman]

Why does the xx51 from sandbach sit at Crewe for nearly an hour. Trains pass each other between crewe and sandbach. If it was re timed, then it could leave sandbach at xx34 and form the xx50 out of crewe to manchester

It doesn't does it?

It arrives - shunts into the siding alongside Tommy's Lane - then re-emerges for the xx34 via the Airport.

I think.

 

[Thomas6187]

Yes it does. The xx01 arrival works the xx34 back to Piccadilly and the xx46 arrival works the xx50 back

 

[1D53]

The diagrams alter at this time to facilitate the extra Stoke service in rush hour, the 17:10 from Deansgate.

 

[luke1420]

2A89 the 14:34 from Crewe runs to oxford road then stables in plt 1 and then at 16:07 runs ECS to Deansgate for the 17:10 departure to Stoke.

But this means that the 15:44 arrival from Crewe via Stockport has to run the 15:46 Crewe via airport instead of running the 16:04 to Crewe. IIRC this mean the 15:56 arrival from stoke runs the 16:04 to Crewe.

 

[rm88]

Too complicated for me, It just seems sensible to re time the evening service so the 323 is not in a siding for 40 odd minutes. Maybe the Northern service should be every 20 minutes between Crewe and Manchester.

 

[luke1420]

I don't think they could, lets remember there is 2 NR 1VT and 1ATW all to go down the stench inbetween wilmslow and Crewe per hour the only thing they could do is make the alderly edge train run express to Crewe after alderly but this seem pointless considering the VT will arrive a couple of mins after the northern.

 

[6Gman]

Too complicated for me, It just seems sensible to re time the evening service so the 323 is not in a siding for 40 odd minutes. Maybe the Northern service should be every 20 minutes between Crewe and Manchester.

What train is in a siding for 40 minutes? From my experience the existing locals carry a lot of fresh air much of the day, so why increase the service?

 

[luke1420]

yeah, from Wilmslow the stopper's are only about half full. Chelford and Goostrey are really small towns, holmes chapel is an ok size but really dose not need any more than 2 per hour and sandbach is an good sizes but is coping fine with the amount of train per hour it gets really no need for another stopper.