• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Northern promise Cumbria extra carriages

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Yew

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2011
Messages
7,244
Location
UK
What units rn that route atm? pacers or sprinters?
 

MidnightFlyer

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,856
153s and 156s tend to stick to the Whitehaven-Carlisle hourly trains; most of the stuff down the Coast is a 156 (or a 142!); services in southern Cumbria are usually a 156 or 142. I don't think I have ever seen a 150 up there...
 

driver9000

Established Member
Joined
13 Jan 2008
Messages
4,569
I don't think I have ever seen a 150 up there...

150s aren't cleared Barrow-Carlisle. Crew up there don't sign 150s either, Barrow might do for working Morecambe services though.

The booked traction for Cumbrian coast work is 153 and 156s, 142s have little booked work on the coast now - although that won't stop them turning up.
 

strange6

Established Member
Joined
9 Jan 2011
Messages
1,920
Location
Wigan, Greater manchester
150s aren't cleared Barrow-Carlisle. Crew up there don't sign 150s either, Barrow might do for working Morecambe services though.

The booked traction for Cumbrian coast work is 153 and 156s, 142s have little booked work on the coast now - although that won't stop them turning up.

Mostly 156's in my experience and quite right too. Much more the comfier trains for that route but if it was down to me, I would have 101's working it :)
 
Joined
26 Sep 2009
Messages
556
Location
Bishops Stortford
150s aren't cleared Barrow-Carlisle. Crew up there don't sign 150s either, Barrow might do for working Morecambe services though.

The booked traction for Cumbrian coast work is 153 and 156s, 142s have little booked work on the coast now - although that won't stop them turning up.

There are some gauging pinch points on the old Maryport - Carlisle line, and I believe that a 156 clears better, being narrower than a 150.
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
18,060
Location
Reston City Centre
Kathryn O’Brien, interim area director for Northern Rail said: “We’re delighted to be able to provide this extra carriage for passengers on the Cumbrian coast. Services on this route are extremely popular.

“We’ve been listening to our customers’ and stakeholders’ concerns about overcrowding and have been working closely with the Department for Transport and other industry partners to find a solution.

“The introduction of this carriage will mean an additional 3,000 seats every week, which is a significant step in meeting the growing demand for services on this route.”

A lot of excitement for one carriage?

I appreciate that one carriage with (say) 75 seats will mean hundreds/thousands more seats over a seven day week, but its a thin story IMHO
 

Anvil1984

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2010
Messages
1,513
Tell that to the poor passengers who have to use the services involved, doubling the capacity is welcome on the services named which are leaving passengers behind on a regular basis.
 

PhilipW

Member
Joined
6 Feb 2008
Messages
761
Location
Fareham, Hants
I am somewhat bemused that the allocation of just one extra carriage to a rail service can become news !

What a sad state of affairs our railways have descended into.
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
18,060
Location
Reston City Centre
Tell that to the poor passengers who have to use the services involved, doubling the capacity is welcome on the services named which are leaving passengers behind on a regular basis.

I'm not saying its bad news, but an increase of one carriage (?) on selected services on the long rural line seems like the kind of marginal improvement that wouldn't have even been mentioned under British Rail. Nowadays it justifies press releases/ newspaper articles etc and is classed as "significant"...
 

sprinterguy

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,573
Location
Macclesfield
So it’s safe to assume that the Cumbrian Coast is set to gain an extra 153. As others have already said, hardly a groundbreaking news story. Good news nonetheless for those travelling over the route though. I assume it’ll be bolstering an existing single 153 formation to give a two carriage train. When I watch a single 153 pull into platform 2 at Carlisle and disgorge it’s passengers I’m frequently amazed at just how many people can be squeezed onto one of those trains, so doubling the capacity of one diagram on the route is a good move.
 

Yew

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2011
Messages
7,244
Location
UK
Any idea where all these new units are going to go? Maybe 150s replacing pacers on the Lincoln Sheffield line ( they ran loads of them a few months ago, maybe a hint of a trial?). Then moving pacers from there (and the 153/156, I'm not sure what it is) to that Cumbria route?
 

sprinterguy

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,573
Location
Macclesfield
Any idea where all these new units are going to go? Maybe 150s replacing pacers on the Lincoln Sheffield line ( they ran loads of them a few months ago, maybe a hint of a trial?). Then moving pacers from there (and the 153/156, I'm not sure what it is) to that Cumbria route?
As PhillipW says, just hold your horses there, it’s only one additional carriage going to the Cumbrian coast. Either a single 153, or, I suppose, a 156 replacing one of the current single 153 diagrams.MattE2010s' analogy of stock provision on the Cumbrian coast is accurate: 142s are not nearly as common on the Cumbrian coast as on other parts of the Northern network: there used to be a single diagram that took a Merseytravel 142 as far as Carlisle on a weekend about six years ago, and I’ve known the odd ex-ATN 142 to appear at times when a 153 has been unavailable. They appear slightly more often on the southern end of the route.

The additional 150s and 142s moving to Northern will most likely be used to lengthen existing services in the GMPTE and Metro/SYPTE areas, where they are most needed, rather than causing a large reshuffle within Northern IMO. No-one knows for sure, that's just my personal prediction.
 
Last edited:

northwichcat

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
32,692
Location
Northwich
The additional 150s and 142s moving to Northern will most likely be used to lengthen existing services in the GMPTE and Metro/SYPTE areas, where they are most needed, rather than causing a large reshuffle within Northern IMO. No-one knows for sure, that's just my personal prediction.

The previous DfT under Labour announced that it would be the Manchester, Liverpool and Sheffield areas that would benefit from the cascades. Since then a few extra 150s have been added on to the cascade but that was after Northern and GMPTE complained that they couldn't replace the 180s with 7x142s without making overcrowding worse. If Metro have asked for any extra stock from the LM cascade then I don't think it's been made public or approved.

It appears it's an extra 153 which has already gone to Cumbria, which is as a result of the subleased 153 from LM. How that extra carriage remains there in the long term though is another question.
 

sprinterguy

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,573
Location
Macclesfield
The previous DfT under Labour announced that it would be the Manchester, Liverpool and Sheffield areas that would benefit from the cascades. Since then a few extra 150s have been added on to the cascade but that was after Northern and GMPTE complained that they couldn't replace the 180s with 7x142s without making overcrowding worse. If Metro have asked for any extra stock from the LM cascade then I don't think it's been made public or approved.

It appears it's an extra 153 which has already gone to Cumbria, which is as a result of the subleased 153 from LM. How that extra carriage remains there in the long term though is another question.

Ah fair enough: I assumed that the extra stock would cover the Liverpool/Manchester area and Sheffield/Leeds area, it would appear then that Leeds is left out of the equation. Good to have that cleared up.
 

northwichcat

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
32,692
Location
Northwich
Ah fair enough: I assumed that the extra stock would cover the Liverpool/Manchester area and Sheffield/Leeds area, it would appear then that Leeds is left out of the equation. Good to have that cleared up.

Given the number of extra carriages I would expect to see some Liverpool-Manchester services strengthened and then it's being classed as benefiting both cities.
 

YorkshireBear

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
9,671
Ah fair enough: I assumed that the extra stock would cover the Liverpool/Manchester area and Sheffield/Leeds area, it would appear then that Leeds is left out of the equation. Good to have that cleared up.

Of course though, many sheffield and manchester services do serve leeds so an indirect gain could be had, especially from sheffield trains with 4 northern tph heading to leads out of about 9.5 (the 0.5 been 2 hourly manchester service) so you never know.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,307
Given the number of extra carriages I would expect to see some Liverpool-Manchester services strengthened and then it's being classed as benefiting both cities.

Didn't the original DfT announcements about this 'muddy the waters' a bit by having various separate press releases - announcing extra trains for the 'Manchester area' and then separately for the 'Sheffield area' - but they were the same trains, just at opposite ends of the route?
 

Hydro

Established Member
Joined
5 Mar 2007
Messages
2,204
When I watch a single 153 pull into platform 2 at Carlisle and disgorge it’s passengers I’m frequently amazed at just how many people can be squeezed onto one of those trains, so doubling the capacity of one diagram on the route is a good move.


The same situation exists on EMT and their Derby-Crewe 153. An awful, awful journey.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
44,410
Location
Yorks
This is true, I travelled from Carnforth to Carlisle via the Cumbrian Coast recently which was formed of a single 153. This one began at 14:** on a Monday and was absolutely crush loaded (people standing all along the isle) until Grange, then still very busy to Barrow. Then standing room only to about three stops on when things quietened down a bit. Then when we got to Windscale a shift of nuclear technicians got on and it was crush loaded again to beyond Whitehaven. Things then quietened down a bit but were still fairly busy until Carlisle at 17:** (I think).

If this is what the line is like off-peak on a weekday in March then I'm guessing even a single 153 will be headline news for the regular passengers using the route.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
Its currently the single 153366 been allocated for strengthening. Dft have committed to permanently funding an extra carriage in service but the 153 may be switched out for a different unit at a future date.
 

Masbroughlad

Established Member
Joined
2 Mar 2011
Messages
1,847
Location
Midlands
I'm not saying its bad news, but an increase of one carriage (?) on selected services on the long rural line seems like the kind of marginal improvement that wouldn't have even been mentioned under British Rail. Nowadays it justifies press releases/ newspaper articles etc and is classed as "significant"...

I agree - one carriage! That should not be news.

If trains were busy, BR used to stick on extra carriages to meet demand as it happened.

Yes, I know it is different now, but yes, just how VERY different (and sad).
 

S19

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2010
Messages
275
The same situation exists on EMT and their Derby-Crewe 153. An awful, awful journey.

I did the 06:58 Crewe - Derby on Thursday. I don't know how EMT can justify only having 153s working this route :cry:
 

Anvil1984

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2010
Messages
1,513
It deserves a mention in the local papers serving the route as many of the former passengers may have decided to use other modes of transport after not being able to get on. Lets get this in perspective its a release in a local newspaper not The Sun etc.

If we are mentionning BR, then they have to take half the blame for this problem form cutting most of the 155s down to 153s as a cost cutting measure
 

Mike Redding

Member
Joined
25 Aug 2009
Messages
118
Location
Whitehaven, Cumbria
Any chance the extra carriage could form an extra service on a Sunday so you don't have to wait for 5 hours in Carlisle after leaving a hotel to get the first train back at 3pm? That's quite a busy train (although very quiet... ;))

In all seriousness, The extra carriage will come in useful, especially with the summer coming up. I remember getting the train back to Whitehaven from St Bees last year. About 30 people on the platform (from the beach), a 153 rolls in with standees already. Luckily for me i was only on there 5 minutes, but it was really uncomfortable.
 

Anvil1984

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2010
Messages
1,513
Agree with lousyness of the Sunday timetable, I referee Rugby League matches and I'm often across that way but theres no chance of getting there by train on a Sunday due to the first train not getting there til well after kick off at 3pm
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
18,060
Location
Reston City Centre
I did the 06:58 Crewe - Derby on Thursday. I don't know how EMT can justify only having 153s working this route :cry:

They have nothing else. The two car 158s can't cope with the Liverpool - Norwich service either. EMT have no new stock on the horizon, no electrification plans for their routes and the only comfort is that new trains for other TOCs (LM 172s etc) may mean they get some more cascaded stock (as well as the four 156s they are getting from Northern).

I don't know where EMT could find spare DMUs to run longer Derby - Crewe trains (though I agree that they are needed).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Agree with lousyness of the Sunday timetable, I referee Rugby League matches and I'm often across that way but theres no chance of getting there by train on a Sunday due to the first train not getting there til well after kick off at 3pm

Is this like Lincolnshire, where the signal boxes are only open for one shift (so no services before around two o'clock on a Sunday)?
 

Anvil1984

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2010
Messages
1,513
They have nothing else. The two car 158s can't cope with the Liverpool - Norwich service either. EMT have no new stock on the horizon, no electrification plans for their routes and the only comfort is that new trains for other TOCs (LM 172s etc) may mean they get some more cascaded stock (as well as the four 156s they are getting from Northern).

I don't know where EMT could find spare DMUs to run longer Derby - Crewe trains (though I agree that they are needed).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Is this like Lincolnshire, where the signal boxes are only open for one shift (so no services before around two o'clock on a Sunday)?

Yeah I am aware of the reasons because we have a similar problem on the Harrogate line which I work, but during summer it could do with an extra shift or even a time shift so the last train is earlier. They somehow manage to get earlier trains for the santa specials over festive period though
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top