Northern previous 150 split

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hi, so

A few years ago obviously all of Northern’s 150/1 fleet became allocated to Newton Heath and are now almost exclusively on Manchester-centric services. A small handful of 150/2s joined them (I remember 225 was one), but most became allocated to Neville Hill for east side services.

Now you definitely used to get 150/1s on the other side too. I had them on Leeds Knaresborough, Leeds Knottingley/Sheffield, Leeds Morecambe and even a Hull service once. But of course, they were still working in Manchester back then too. So my question is, how were the 150s allocated before the /1s became NH only? Did they have a mixed pool of /1 and /2 specifically for NH and a mixed pool of /1 and /2 specifically for NL? Or was the entire Northern 150 fleet just shuffled around continuously, a bit like the 3 car 165s shuffle around between Reading and Bristol?

 

[ThePeakNed]

Hi, so

A few years ago obviously all of Northern’s 150/1 fleet became allocated to Newton Heath and are now almost exclusively on Manchester-centric services. A small handful of 150/2s joined them (I remember 225 was one), but most became allocated to Neville Hill for east side services.

Now you definitely used to get 150/1s on the other side too. I had them on Leeds Knaresborough, Leeds Knottingley/Sheffield, Leeds Morecambe and even a Hull service once. But of course, they were still working in Manchester back then too. So my question is, how were the 150s allocated before the /1s became NH only? Did they have a mixed pool of /1 and /2 specifically for NH and a mixed pool of /1 and /2 specifically for NL? Or was the entire Northern 150 fleet just shuffled around continuously, a bit like the 3 car 165s shuffle around between Reading and Bristol?

Bit of both really. The /1s were pretty much all NH, however, before the arrival of the Great Western blue devices and the West Midland trio, the /2s would move between to two depots as and when required.

 

[driverd]

My understanding was that the depot allocation was essentially just for the big exams, otherwise, a 150 was a 150. There was nothing to differentiate on diagrams etc - thus a 150/1 could turn out on a Knottingley almost as readily as a 150/2. There was a general tendency to keep more /1s west, but I think that was more linked to the best diagram for them to end in the right place for a given exam.

Unless something has changed recently, I believe the 195s operate in a similar way now.

 

[skyhigh]

Unless something has changed recently, I believe the 195s operate in a similar way now.

195s are all allocated to Newton Heath and cycle through there.

 

[driverd]

195s are all allocated to Newton Heath and cycle through there.

Yeah that's exactly what I meant.

 

[Whisky Papa]

My understanding was that the depot allocation was essentially just for the big exams, otherwise, a 150 was a 150. There was nothing to differentiate on diagrams etc - thus a 150/1 could turn out on a Knottingley almost as readily as a 150/2. There was a general tendency to keep more /1s west, but I think that was more linked to the best diagram for them to end in the right place for a given exam.

Unless something has changed recently, I believe the 195s operate in a similar way now.

Certainly the case when I was working on Northern's Short Term Planning team in 2007/8. There were two pools of 150 diagrams, all allocated to Newton Heath for maintenance purposes. There were I think only six diagrams in the 150/2 pool, which had to be corridor units due to the reverse at Knaresborough requiring the crew to walk through the train. All the other 150/2 units would be allocated diagrams in the 150/1 pool, which definitely included several workings into Yorkshire where a unit may have stabled at Holbeck or Sheffield and not returned to Newton Heath for a couple of days.

 

[Geeves]

One difference today is that most of the (easy) methods of swapping 150s over between west and east have been closed.

There were diagrams in the past that would swap at Huddersfield for example where a unit would come from Victoria and then go to Sheffield. Calder Valley and Hope Valley also were frequently swapped leading to 150/1s on the Harrogate work etc. 80 percent of those trains are 195s now and Victoria currently don't sign Huddersfield.

 

[Whisky Papa]

One difference today is that most of the (easy) methods of swapping 150s over between west and east have been closed.

There were diagrams in the past that would swap at Huddersfield for example where a unit would come from Victoria and then go to Sheffield. Calder Valley and Hope Valley also were frequently swapped leading to 150/1s on the Harrogate work etc. 80 percent of those trains are 195s now and Victoria currently don't sign Huddersfield.

Yes, there's certainly a lot less flexibility now, in both routes and the fact that many routes are allocated a specific class of train, which definitely wasn't the case back then!

 

[childwallblues]

Heatons 156s were regularly used on Lime Lime Street to Manchester Oford Road services before the arrival of the 195s. Heaton 156 are now very rare on Newton Heath diagrams. They do get to Preston on diagrams off the Cumbrian Coast. I noted 156480 in the sidings at Preston as I passed yesterday morning and it departed as 5C51 0905 Preston CS to Lancaster to form 2C51 1014 to Carlisle via The Coast.