They quite often don't.
I haven't seen any research. It's just common sense. Not the person you quoted nor I said it's 100% safe or foolproof and if we had we would be wrong and you would be right. But if one guard stops one driver or one driver stops one guard , then it's safer. Posts upthread stated that they have seen several times that drivers had stopped in the wrong place and the guard buzzed them to draw forward , so if those drivers had of been doo that would of been doors open when non platformed. I have driven doo and now guarded and I can tell you that when I was doo it was almost a weekly occurrence that a driver would release doors on the wrong side of the train or stop short and not completely platformed or sitting at a red signal. Of course I don't know what goes on at every depot , but since guarded only one instance I know of that doors were opened on a stop short. One in two years guarded versus weekly when doo. 100% safer no . Safer even slightly , absolutely.
I don't work for Northern and have no idea about Deansgate . But if they did , although it's an incident it's not unsafe because any passenger alighting would step onto a platform.
Would be a good start. On DOO areas I've been, pretty much every platform has had appropriate stop markers.
On the contrary....the main problem that I have seen is when the platform is on the left and the conductor has to fight their way out of the rear cab to reach the second set of doors. Being virtually an off-the-peg Spanish design of suburban/regional unit - and Spanish railways normally run on the right hand track - the nearest set of door controls to the rear cab are on that side.
The door opening mechanism is not the issue. The guards often struggle with the release buttons, or the release buttons can be unresponsive. The guards know when the service is busy and can arrive at the door panel in time for the service stopping at a station.
Was on that one, wasn't like the normal commute of the time.
I haven't signed every traction , but all traction I have ever signed can't move with doors open , you can't get interlock. Of course again two people can both make a mistake. But when I was doo , drivers would release doors themselves where they shouldn't of on occasion. I can't release doors now without going through a whole process that I rarely do.
@LowLevel may be able to confirm but I suspect there is a local instruction that if stopped in the platform due to signals that the driver gives the guard 2-2 on the buzzer (do not release doors).
I agree. All the rulebook requires is that the crew satisfy themselves that the train is correctly platformed. In most locations this can be done from the doorway. However many operators have gold-plated this and require their guards to physically step onto the platform, so that they have been seen to check. It's a performance for the CCTV.
For a price. Some units use balises to know precisely which doors are platformed. The cheaper form of ASDO on the other hand just knows how many doors should be platformed at a given station, it has no idea if the driver has actually stopped at the four car mark or the two car mark. It just goes "three coaches should be platformed here, so I'll open three coaches" even though the driver has stopped short and one of those coaches is off of the platform.
More likely to be concerned that the guard may have been thumped.
In the case of Burnham (Bucks) by sticking all of the car stop marks right down the far end of the platform, leaving passengers with a very long walk from the entrance when a two car Turbo is diagrammed.
The door controls on each side of a 15x unit are (sensibly) located next to each other. You don't have to elbow your way through the length of the saloon for the one on the opposite side between Oxford Road and Piccadilly.
On any multiple units in service today the door circuits are interlocked with the brakes. In the days of slam door stock with no traction/brake interlock it was necessary to give the tip to start away from a station if stopped out of course.
You just wouldn't open the doors if you're not booked to call at Deansgate. It happens all the time. If the driver hears the door key go on (it makes a particular clicking sound on some traction with the relays/solenoids, or a light comes on) they might give 2-2 as a courtesy but it's not a requirement.
Personally? As long as the second person is on the ball definitely two as it leaves the person at the pointy end to get on with concentrating on what's going on in front of them, and being involved gives the second person access to a lot of information that is much more use to them than the driver.
I don't agree either. I know you said earlier about dispatch against a red , but that happened a few times at my old doo toc . Driver concentrating on cameras and driving past a red. Now guarded and no camera to watch I'm fixated on the signal. Also I either pop the cab door on a red so the guard can't get interlock or I get out and stand on the platform. If you mitigate against incidents then that's double the mitigation.
How common at your intense doo toc .
A damned sight easier than trying to get from one end of the coach to the other. Vestibules (even in 158s) are large enough that people can stand two deep, therefore able to shuffle around each other. Aisles however are single file unless you're pretty skinny.
I don't sign 150/1 but I understand that the crew doors are not accessed by the public.
I have. Perhaps when posting you need to consider how often you actually travel, and weigh that against the experience of the staff who practically spend their lives on trains.
Is this the same RSSB who were going around a traincrew depot some years back, extolling the virtues of replacing diversionary route knowledge with an iPad? I long since came to the conclusion that they just exist to implement the DfT's latest money-saving wheeze.
I don't see anything specifically talking about passengers there.
Much as you would like that to be the case I’m afraid it’s just not true.
It really is true. I didn't say it doesn't happen with two , just less likely to. I happen to have driven doo and now guarded. I work with a lot of drivers and only one I know is considering going back to doo . Many took a paycut to go guarded and all of them feel safer. When doo I myself nearly left a platform on a red and nearly released doors sitting at a red and nowhere near a platform , my fingers were about a centimetre from the door buttons. Not even one near miss guarded . Sorry but it's safer , not 100% but it is.
