Northern pay negotiations - deal agreed

[northwichcat]

Northern have already told the unions a Scotrail type deal is not on the cards because the DFT will not agree to it.

What's special about the Scotrail deal? Does it include cancelling services if the second member of franchise staff is unavailable opposed to running them driver only?

 

[IanXC]

What's special about the Scotrail deal? Does it include cancelling services if the second member of franchise staff is unavailable opposed to running them driver only?

It does indeed.

As far as I can see ScotRail were only ever looking towards DOO to reduce dispatch time, particularly on the Falkirk High route, the agreement to driver open/guard close should still deliver this, and so SR had no particular reason to chase down further changes.

 

[Bantamzen]

Solution they've come up for some schools is Educational Season tickets: http://www.midcheshirerail.org.uk/u... 2017 educational season application form.pdf If school kids have one of those they aren't spending the money for their fares on sweets and then claiming they don't have any money to buy a ticket.

There is a similar scheme here, MCards available for schoolkids and students, but it's obvious that a lot of parents are either unaware of them or simply not buying them for whatever reason. Which is strange because they are only around £36 per month, and a lot of the schoolkids on the trains around here are traveling to private or grammar schools, so money isn't going to be an issue.

Ironically DfT didn't allow old Northern to employ RPIs because of the salary limit they imposed on the franchise. Yet they were allowed to award a 'revenue protection contract' to a third party as long as the income from it exceeded the cost of the contract. Then when the operator tried allowing the contracted RPIs on trains in one areas the guards threw them off because the RMT objected.

When I used to commute from South Elmsall to Bradford, the morning peaks from Doncaster used to double up on guards. So one would work the rear two cars of a 321 and conduct dispatch duties, whilst the other would work the front two (and further back if needed) only. It seemed an incredibly sensible idea on what are very busy services. Yet this practice was rarely done on other busy peaks, and even now on the incredibly busy Aire / Wharfe peak services that I use now there is only ever one working all four cars (and generally most only ask if people need to buy). Yes most stations have TVMs and some have staff manning the entrances in the morning peaks, but it is still all too apparently easy to by-pass them an potentially avoid paying, especially at places like Shipley where there are blindingly obvious gaps in the manning of entrances.

 

[northwichcat]

When I used to commute from South Elmsall to Bradford, the morning peaks from Doncaster used to double up on guards. So one would work the rear two cars of a 321 and conduct dispatch duties, whilst the other would work the front two (and further back if needed) only. It seemed an incredibly sensible idea on what are very busy services. Yet this practice was rarely done on other busy peaks, and even now on the incredibly busy Aire / Wharfe peak services that I use now there is only ever one working all four cars (and generally most only ask if people need to buy).

I imagine the downside to that are a second guard costs more than a guard + RPI and also if the service is delayed that could then have a knock-on effect of delaying three later (single guard) services if the driver and 2 x guards are all required on different services after finishing the one they are working.

 

[northernchris]

When I used to commute from South Elmsall to Bradford, the morning peaks from Doncaster used to double up on guards. So one would work the rear two cars of a 321 and conduct dispatch duties, whilst the other would work the front two (and further back if needed) only. It seemed an incredibly sensible idea on what are very busy services. Yet this practice was rarely done on other busy peaks, and even now on the incredibly busy Aire / Wharfe peak services that I use now there is only ever one working all four cars (and generally most only ask if people need to buy). Yes most stations have TVMs and some have staff manning the entrances in the morning peaks, but it is still all too apparently easy to by-pass them an potentially avoid paying, especially at places like Shipley where there are blindingly obvious gaps in the manning of entrances.

Skipton used to have a team if RPIs to work morning peak services, have these gone now? Shipley must be a nightmare to barrier with all the various entrances, although the staff used across the area aren't the most pro-active and don't appear to challenge those without tickets

 

[Lemmy99uk]

As far as I am aware, an agreement has been reached on a 2 year deal and the unions are recommending acceptance.

Sighs of relief all round I imagine.

 

[absolutelymilk]

As far as I am aware, an agreement has been reached on a 2 year deal and the unions are recommending acceptance.

Sighs of relief all round I imagine.

Indeed:

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/union-campaign-secures-pay-offer-on-arriva-trains-north/

Rail union RMT said today that, along with sister unions, it has secured a revised pay offer on Arriva Trains North which protects the standards of living of all grades of staff over a two year period and which gives a massive boost to the basic pay of those on the lowest rates.

Details of the offer are:
• From 3 April 2016: 2.2% increase
• From 2 April 2017: 2.4% increase or January 2017 RPI increase (whichever is greater)
• Loyalty Scheme for all grades: £150 voucher for employees who reach 10 years, 20 years, and 25 years’ service, and every 5 years thereafter. This amount to be index-linked to January RPI each year from 2018. This scheme to replace any existing scheme.
• Specific pay increase, instead of the above offer, for colleagues working as Train Presentation Operative (TPO), as follows:
o From 3 April 2016: £500 increase
o From 2 April 2017: £500 increase

 

[HowardGWR]

What is a 'train presentation operative'? A cleaner? It's back to 'refuse disposal operatives' again after all that nonsense had been debunked so many years ago?

 

[northwichcat]

What is a 'train presentation operative'? A cleaner? It's back to 'refuse disposal operatives' again after all that nonsense had been debunked so many years ago?

New Northern has come up with all sorts of fancy titles (like Virgin have had for years.) There is no customer service team anymore - it's now a customer experience team!

 

[Jamesrob637]

As far as I am aware, an agreement has been reached on a 2 year deal and the unions are recommending acceptance.

Sighs of relief all round I imagine.

Definitely; delays are bad enough but strikes would tip many over the edge. I can sympathise with those who have to use Southern...

 

[hairyhandedfool]

New Northern has come up with all sorts of fancy titles (like Virgin have had for years.) There is no customer service team anymore - it's now a customer experience team!

To be fair, Train Presentation Operative was old [Abellio/Serco] Northern, though I think it was the same MD at the time....

 

[CaptainHaddock]

What is a 'train presentation operative'? A cleaner? It's back to 'refuse disposal operatives' again after all that nonsense had been debunked so many years ago?

When I got my first job as a paper boy in my teens, I used to refer to myself as a Media Distribution Officer!

 

[Andyh82]

I think it's a bit sad when a long service loyalty scheme ends up being actually written into a contract with exact terms that could fire off a dispute later if it was ever changed.

Rather than a goodwill gesture that many companies will and do offer anyway in a informal manner without it being explicitly demanded.

Next they will be saying that cakes must be provided by the company for each employee's birthday which must cost at least £5 revised in line with RPI.

 

[Bantamzen]

I imagine the downside to that are a second guard costs more than a guard + RPI and also if the service is delayed that could then have a knock-on effect of delaying three later (single guard) services if the driver and 2 x guards are all required on different services after finishing the one they are working.

Possibly so, and maybe have a guard + 1 RPI might be the way forward if it was to costly / risky of having to guards on one service. But either way it would still be more cost effective than having half-arsed RPI checks at random stations as seems to be the case at the moment.

Skipton used to have a team if RPIs to work morning peak services, have these gone now? Shipley must be a nightmare to barrier with all the various entrances, although the staff used across the area aren't the most pro-active and don't appear to challenge those without tickets

To be honest I tend to avoid most Skipton-Leeds in the morning peaks save the very early ones or the early VTEC to commute as they are usually rammed, so I can only comment on services leaving Shipley up until the 07:08 departure in saying that I don't see anyone other than the guard and some (currently) cold and slightly disinterested RPIs at some platform entrances.

But anyway hopefully the new deal will be accepted and none of us have to worry about anything for at least a couple of years.

 

[Clip]

What is a 'train presentation operative'? A cleaner? It's back to 'refuse disposal operatives' again after all that nonsense had been debunked so many years ago?

Should be much more than a cleaner nowadays with them reporting faults and poor quality furniture whilst on the train so the fleet maintenance team which in theory should cut down on the man hours of having someone check them from the maintenance team.

In fact DLR had an advert for a Train Presentation manager go up on the boards the other year and this should be the way forward for the cleaning role within a TOC as it can free up so many man hours every night - a proper LEAN process if you will.

 

[DarloRich]

I think it's a bit sad when a long service loyalty scheme ends up being actually written into a contract with exact terms that could fire off a dispute later if it was ever changed.

Rather than a goodwill gesture that many companies will and do offer anyway in a informal manner without it being explicitly demanded.

Next they will be saying that cakes must be provided by the company for each employee's birthday which must cost at least £5 revised in line with RPI.

but it is an easy win for all sides. It costs the company almost nothing, looks like they care about long serving employees and allows the union to have something to offer the time served members and means they back down from a 2.3% rise and accept 2.2%.

All part of the great game.