Northern Pacers?

[robertbishop]

Hi

I'm doing a rover next week around Leeds, Huddersfield and Sheffield next week and I'd like to avoid Pacers if possible. Can anyone tell me are there any routes in the West Yorkshire PTE which are solidly or mainly Pacer run which I can avoid?

Thanks
Rob

 

[317666]

One thing I can tell you is that the Leeds-Skipton-Ilkley-Bradford Forster Square triangle is mostly operated by 333s, so if you do want to avoid Pacers you could give them a try.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The Leeds-Barnsley-Sheffield stoppers, the Penistone line, Leeds-Desbury-Manchester Victoria (slows), some of the West Yorkshire Grand Tour (Selby-Leeds-Huddersfield-Wakefield) trains, and Leeds-Knottingley-Goole / Wakefield all tend to be Pacers.

 

[robertbishop]

Thanks for the quick replies, that's very useful. Are there any clues on NRE that you can see on particular services that tell you the traction? For example the Southern 442s on London - Brighton say something like no pushchairs I think...

 

[tbtc]

Of the Northern services to Sheffield, the only ones where you can be fairly certain of avoiding a Pacer are the Hull services and the Leeds - Barnsley - Sheffield - Nottingham ones (plus the "semi fast" Leeds - Barnsley - Sheffield service that avoids Castleford which interworks with the Nottingham trips).

The Penistone, Castleford, Dearne Valley, Adwick, Scunthorpe, Lincoln and Hope Valley services all see some Pacers (though not exclusively)

 

[northwichcat]

I'd suggest having a flexible plan if you want to avoid Pacers. You might not plan to do the Penistone line but if you get to Huddersfield and see a Sprinter at platform 2 soon to depart for Sheffield then you can ride it but if it's a Pacer then you can take another service to somewhere else.

 

[tbtc]

I'd suggest having a flexible plan if you want to avoid Pacers. You might not plan to do the Penistone line but if you get to Huddersfield and see a Sprinter at platform 2 soon to depart for Sheffield then you can ride it but if it's a Pacer then you can take another service to somewhere else.

Good thinking

 

[trentside]

One thing I can tell you is that the Leeds-Skipton-Ilkley-Bradford Forster Square triangle is mostly operated by 333s, so if you do want to avoid Pacers you could give them a try.

That's usually a safe bet - as is Doncaster to Leeds, with the 321/9s and 322s.

Be aware that Pacers can appear on the 'Triangle' - as happened to me the other day, when 144015 appeared working an Ilkley service in place of a 333. They also work between Skipton and Leeds on the Leeds - Morecambe / Heysham Port services.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Leeds-Lancaster / Morecambe I believed is booked 150s now.

 

[robertbishop]

Thanks again for the further info. Here is my plan for the day if anyone is interested. I haven't avoided Pacers totally, as I'd rather get to those places on time than not at all.

0802 Leeds - Sheffield 0902 (158)
0914 Sheffield - Outwood 1011 (144/150)
1Z42 SSE at Outwood 1125
1159 Outwood - Wakefield W 1203 (142/144)
1239 Wakefield W - Huddersfield 1311 (153/158)
1330 Huddersfield - Stalybridge 1400 (142)
Lunch
1440 Stalybridge - Man Vic 1458 (142)
1521 Man Vic - Leeds 1658 (153/158)
Boat Train at some point somewhere
1805 Leeds - Wakefield K 1823 (158)
1Z43 SSE at Wakefield K 1911-14
1950 Wakefield K - Castleford 2000 (142)
1Z43 SSE at Castleford 2009-13
2032 Castleford - Leeds 2057 (142)

Rob

 

[northwichcat]

I wouldn't be so sure that you're going to get the exact units specified. Victoria-Leeds/Selby and Selby/Leeds-Wakefield services can be operated by 144s and sometimes 142s (there are some booked 5 car Pacer workings!) While both Northern services which serve Stalybridge can see 150s and 156s. Even if you checked against the booked diagrams there might be unit swaps on the day.

 

[robertbishop]

My predictions are based off finding out the headcode of the said train, putting it in Flickr and seeing what the pictures are of.

 

[Geeves]

The description I generally use in regards to Northerns fleet allocation for the day is "Moving the deck chairs on the Titanic" lol

I would say that any service that passes through a major terminus especially if it has a depot near by is fair game for a swap. I cant speak for other stations but Victoria can see 20 to 30 unit swaps per day!

142/144s on the XX:00 XX:21 and XX:48 semi express jobs to Leeds can sometimes turn up a 142 on every single one. Good luck.

 

[tom1649]

Leeds-Lancaster / Morecambe I believed is booked 150s now.

In Northern land this means absolutely nothing. With the Northern unit lottery anything can and will turn up on any service, regardless of what is booked! The only time they stick to the same stock is when a certain type is banned down a certain route eg. no Pacers allowed to Buxton, Clitheroe or Nottingham.

I had a really sluggish 142 on the Hope Valley the other day which arrived at Piccadilly over 10 minutes late. You'd think they'd put a decent unit on such a long route (had a really energetic one just a week previous which kept up with the timetable very well).

 

[Geeves]

Just as side note Tom. I believe that since the work was carried out on the viaduct at Whalley 142s are now cleared to run in service to Clitheroe if required. I think a notice has gone up recently, yesterday even. They are going to love that!

 

[armadillomaste]

I had 2 158's take me on the Leeds to Sheffield via Rotherham last week.

That service can be anything.

142/158's are common too

 

[YorkshireBear]

Are you doing a south pennines day ranger? because that isnt valid on the local service from sheffield to outwood. It is only valid on barnsley line not the dearne valley line.

 

[northwichcat]

The only time they stick to the same stock is when a certain type is banned down a certain route eg. no Pacers allowed to Buxton, Clitheroe or Nottingham.

Banned and haven't applied for clearance is not the same. They are banned from going to Buxton but clearance hasn't been applied for to do Chesterfield to Nottingham.

They are also banned on Macclesfield-Stoke due to platform clearance issues. Although, Northern would annoy Virgin and XC if they put any 75mph DMU on a Stoke stopper!

Just as side note Tom. I believe that since the work was carried out on the viaduct at Whalley 142s are now cleared to run in service to Clitheroe if required. I think a notice has gone up recently, yesterday even. They are going to love that!

I believe the issue with Blackburn-Clitheroe was simply down to poor track quality which was fixed quite a long time ago but Blackburn-Clitheroe was kept Pacer free.

Maybe I should whisper that before people get ideas about Pacers being banned between Wigan and Southport.

 

[Keith Jarrett]

In Northern land this means absolutely nothing. With the Northern unit lottery anything can and will turn up on any service, regardless of what is booked! The only time they stick to the same stock is when a certain type is banned down a certain route eg. no Pacers allowed to Buxton, Clitheroe or Nottingham.

I had a really sluggish 142 on the Hope Valley the other day which arrived at Piccadilly over 10 minutes late. You'd think they'd put a decent unit on such a long route (had a really energetic one just a week previous which kept up with the timetable very well).

Was at Manchester Victoria a few weeks ago and saw a 142 heading to Clitheroe - was almost tempted to take it, just for the stagger

Likewise, the Hope Valley really needs more than a 142 although I have seen several 150s of late

 

[DarloRich]

I dont think the pacers turn up on the Leeds- Doncaster services that often ( ) or on the Bradford/Shipley runs.

otherwise, good luck!

 

[tbtc]

I dont think the pacers turn up on the Leeds- Doncaster services that often ( )

Before the 322s arrived, if there weren't enough EMUs then the Doncaster trips tended to get a three coach 158 rather than a Pacer. But, in Northern-world, anything was possible I suppose (I never saw a Pacer though)...

 

[DarloRich]

in Northern-world, anything was possibleQUOTE]

Never a truer word spoken

 

[Donny Dave]

Before the 322s arrived, if there weren't enough EMUs then the Doncaster trips tended to get a three coach 158 rather than a Pacer. But, in Northern-world, anything was possible I suppose (I never saw a Pacer though)...

I've seen a pair of pacers stand in before. Bet the local users loved that!

 

[tom1649]

Just as side note Tom. I believe that since the work was carried out on the viaduct at Whalley 142s are now cleared to run in service to Clitheroe if required. I think a notice has gone up recently, yesterday even. They are going to love that!

Thanks for that information! I happened to travel on a Clitheroe train on Saturday but it was a 150/1 with original Ashbourne seating (ex London Midland then?).

I quite like the uncertainty of what unit will turn up on a given service. Many other operators are far too predictable these days.

 

[Geeves]

You would have seen 142s heading that way already but only as far as Blackburn. From the 16th of this month they were cleared to run all the way to Helifield Junction. Enjoy Ribble Valley line complainers LOL. Even today the 19:00 Vic Leeds was a 158 and 142 combo. The best one of all!

 

[badger1badger]

Hi consider Wakefield to pontefract on a grand central unit - a pacer to knottingley and back then the gc again to Halifax - a sprinter to brighouse - one to huddersfield then trams pennine all day Leeds dewsbury Huddersfield vica versa

I did that a few weeks ago and managed a drop of real ale in dews and hudds

Cheers

Paul

 

[northwichcat]

I happened to travel on a Clitheroe train on Saturday but it was a 150/1 with original Ashbourne seating (ex London Midland then?).

Yes all the ex-FNW 150s had the seating replaced. There are 10 ex-ATN 150s with Northern with original seating but they are all 150/2s.

 

[robertbishop]

Are you doing a south pennines day ranger? because that isnt valid on the local service from sheffield to outwood. It is only valid on barnsley line not the dearne valley line.

Nope I'm not, so it's fine.

consider Wakefield to pontefract on a grand central unit - a pacer to knottingley and back then the gc again to Halifax - a sprinter to brighouse - one to huddersfield then trams pennine all day Leeds dewsbury Huddersfield vica versa

I'm going up and back from London on GC, so I don't need to do that. The rest of it is mostly covered anyway. Thanks, though.

Thanks all for your wishes of good luck and further info.

Regards
Rob

 

[tom1649]

I travelled on a "Merseytravel" 142 yesterday on a Man Vic - Blackpool service and the interior was in a shocking state. Many of the seat bases were loose, the seat covers and painted surfaces were worn and scruffy and there was a slightly dank smell. Unfortunately I've forgotten the unit number. Does anyone know whether these are going to receive Northern seat covers?

In comparison the bus-bench seated examples including 'unrefurbished' 142013 (no luggage racks and brown floor) which I travelled on yesterday are in much better condition.

 

[northwichcat]

I travelled on a "Merseytravel" 142 yesterday on a Man Vic - Blackpool service and the interior was in a shocking state. Many of the seat bases were loose, the seat covers and painted surfaces were worn and scruffy and there was a slightly dank smell. Unfortunately I've forgotten the unit number. Does anyone know whether these are going to receive Northern seat covers?

Apparently the answer is yes they will get new seat covers.

Some of the Merseytravel 142s, ex-ATN 156s and ex-FGW 142s have seen a damaged seat cover been partly replaced by a purple Northern one and they look visually terrible.